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[CNN] Why would-be engineers end up as English majors - Page 14

post #131 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
I guess I got lucky (and unlucky). I wanted to go into video game programming and there happen to be a couple places that specialize in that specifically. Those private schools are much less traditional than your standard college so you don't end up with the same issues like waiting a year for a course you need for your major.

However, private schools tend to cost a lot more. So lucky that I didn't have to put up with the traditional college crap, and unlucky that I did end up paying about 40% more for college. I feel like it worked out alright though, I ended up with a job before I had even graduated and am making a good salary. Still, traditional school or not, 65% of the original joining class dropped out. And of the remaining 35% only about 25% of them that I know of got a job in their major.
I kind of wish I had done this. I opted to just get a general CS degree because it will let me get into more places than just the ones in the gaming field. In the event I cannot find a gaming job I could just fall back onto a backup field.

After 2 years of community college I am having doubts needless to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechati View Post
I've taught enough to say that 90% of students (yes in US) are nothing but a lazy bums. With their attitude they expect to get good grades just because they pay tuition but to honestly work for the grade is nowhere on their 'to do list'.
Cheers to those that dont whine and actually STUDY
This attitude is part of the problem. You've given up and written off students before they have even started the course. My first Trig teacher did this and the majority of the class either dropped or failed the course. It wasn't a class full of lazy do-nothings either. If you're going to put negative energy into a class don't be surprised when people start dropping left and right.

Quote:
Schools admit more science majors than they expect to graduate, and don't teach students to support each other, Hrabowski said, instead fostering an atmosphere of cutthroat competition.
This is so horribly true. In most of my classes people don't even acknowledge each other. Only in my CS courses have people actually talked with one another on a personal level. These courses tend to have lesser drop rates than my other courses...
Edited by SchmoSalt - 5/22/11 at 12:02pm
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post #132 of 341
Looking at this thread I guess I had a pretty exceptional first year experience. All of my professors were American, except my Calc II and Calc III prof who was Bulgarian but had a sweet, easily understood accent. Sure, my physics lab and one of my genetics TAs didn't speak much English, but the main professor had office hours and there were numerous tutoring resources that I could take advantage of. Go Pitt!
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post #133 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by aldfig0 View Post
I think it's pointless to debate which major is harder than the others, they all play to different strengths. Some people can breeze through math and science but when you give them, say Shakespeare they don't know what to do.
Technically Shakespeare is math if you break down linguistics. That's what people don't understand, the only subject that's really different from lets say Physics is Humanities. English, Math... I'm having troubles finding subjects that are unique enough to say they aren't derived from math. Or the basic principles that math teaches, logic and structure. That brings us to another problem, people don't understand the connection between math, logic, and almost everything in our lives today. There are very few subjects that aren't related to logic and reasoning, which comes from math the god of logic and structure.

Now, if you want to get into interpretation of Shakespeare.... That is Philosophy, which is still heavily dominated by logistics. The problem with reality, at least reality in the terms of what we see and do every day is the understanding of symbolism. Everything can be broken down into patterns and ideas, which then are structured logically to create a message. Sometimes you have to think abstractly but that still doesn't go around the fact that we not only give meaning to certain things but we label them. The idea that everything we do can be broken down into a symbolic idea or concept is nuts, people generally don't understand that.

A good book that holds subsistence to the idea is "The Game" by Niel Strauss. The idea of the game, or being a pickup artist, is that attraction is a mechanical process that we go through. There is no luck, no chance, it's a logical series of events that we go through. Everything has some form of logic behind us, only when we bring emotional ties into it (Humanities) that this gets interrupted.

So, unless you are going into a Humanities field or some field with high end math you are going into a lesser subject. That's just how things are run. We created our world based off symbolism and logic, it follows those rules to the core. Unfortunately not all of us are on the same playing field, some of us can't seem to grasp this.

I believe this is a problem with our education system and starts around age 8. We are poorly taught as children so we learn poorly as adults. You get into the idea that the brain structures itself based off previous knowledge and then you get the idea that intelligence might be heavily influenced by what we learn and when. Neurons that fire together wire together, structure is important.

[edit] Some even say emotions have a logical pattern, though each pattern is unique to each individual and their life. So the variables to figuring out what is going to happen is great but not impossible.
Edited by mushroomboy - 5/22/11 at 12:18pm
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post #134 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardv View Post
Yes,but why ? lol
seriously?
    
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post #135 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyYoshi View Post
Looking at this thread I guess I had a pretty exceptional first year experience. All of my professors were American, except my Calc II and Calc III prof who was Bulgarian but had a sweet, easily understood accent. Sure, my physics lab and one of my genetics TAs didn't speak much English, but the main professor had office hours and there were numerous tutoring resources that I could take advantage of. Go Pitt!
Are you at Carnegie Mellon? If so that isn't surprising, I would expect their to be much better teaching practices at the high end universities such at CM, MIT and Stanford.
post #136 of 341
http://www.hulu.com/watch/219252/ted...on#s-p22-sr-i0

The idea of GPA as a reward isn't the problem. It's telling the students that they have to learn "the candle problem" and if they do they get a higher grade. It doesn't work, the entire system doesn't work. In fact the idea of grades is a sham and a few places are starting to hire people based off other things. If you go into web design your better off having a nice portfolio of your own work than you are with grades. I've seen too many programmers hired because they are recruited, they are good.

It's the other problem with engineering jobs, the kids don't get the experience and don't get the job. They spend the entire college career doing the work, using mnemonic devices to learn. They should be getting experience in the field, doing extra activities outside of school that not only gives them the experience but helps them in the same way homework would.
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post #137 of 341
it's easier to get 100% in the sciences than it is in the social sciences. Can't speak for the humanities, although I assume it's the same (in drama there is a good vs a great way to act, in art there is proper and improper technique, etc.). from my experience, it's almost impossible to get into the high 90s in philosophy, a bit easier for political science. for philosophy in particular, a lot of people chalk that up to it being a 'subjective' area of study (like the answers to questions can be whatever you argue well enough for, as appose to 4 being the correct answer to 2 plus 2). It's not really like that though, there really are right or wrong answers in philosophy and it's surprisingly difficult to get your paper back with a great mark and I'm still not quite sure why that is.

I feel like originality is stifled within the social sciences; political science especially. Apparently for the hard sciences, all the genuises or the "great thinkers" are known by the time they're in their early 20s. All the great thinkers in poli sci are known once they hit like 65, anyone under that age can forget about being respected by the scholastic community for their ideas (generally). In philosophy most of the professors at my school (university of toronto) did their undergrads in mathematics, since in order to "really" understand it you need a grasp of logic which for us is predicate calculus on the most basic level. You move into probabilities and that sort of thing afterwards. But it's not calc like engineers talk about; still just as hard but it's not the same thing.

Here in Ontario, apparently they are taking out the toughest math courses from highschool grade 12 (calc and discrete functions i think) and moving them into first year university courses. an engineer friend of mine pointed out to me that that means those kids going into eng or other hard sciences won't do calc until first year uni, and he says that it's going to be a complete clusterSEX because that stuff is very difficult to master.

THE POINT: we'll probably see the same trend here of science majors switching over because these first-year students are going to feel like they're getting falcon punched every day.
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post #138 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
In all honesty I don't blame those who decide to back out of those fields. The schooling system in the U.S. is pretty ridiculous (in my opinion) and is getting only worse. Every several years the school boards add more required courses and I feel this is why so many people end up dropping out of their studies. Many of the classes (I'd say well more than 25% of the courses required) taken for ANY field of study are hilariously useless towards that particular field of work. Why are they required? Just because; because that's the way they want it and that's the way it'll be. Ummm... wow, really? I have to sit through Biology and Chemistry for a Computer Information Systems degree? Niiiiice. It's awesome to know that the ~$300-$500 I spend on each class (which we either pay or live poorly without a higher degree) supports their scheme.

Another factor that contributes to this are the horrible salaries our teachers make, and not only that, the piss-poor teachers that are somehow being hired. Teachers are quite an important role in our world, and they are paid horribly for their job. My sister (an elementary teacher) has a Master's degree and she just barely breaks $30,000 annually. Raise the pay, raise the quality requirement bar, and you won't need to worry about an uneducated future that lacks professionals in certain fields. My Chemistry teacher was at LEAST 90 years old. Are you kidding me? The guy can barely carry his textbook, let alone have the memory and voice to teach a 50 student college Chemistry class.
You've just summarized my views toward post-secondary.
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post #139 of 341
Depends on the science, though I believe social sciences are extremely easy. If you go about them with the same logic needed to do Computer Science or any math based major in science. I got an A- in intro to sociology, it's easy as pie. People think we have a choice, they however don't understand the mechanics behind social engineering. We don't chose to be influenced, we simply are. If you go at it without the belief that we ultimately choose than you do really well, as choice is usually an illusion.

I agree with the decision though [Ontario], at least for the majority of the population. We should learn multiplication and division by 8th grade. Anyone who doesn't know it shouldn't be let into high school, if they can't complete high school by the time they are 21 they don't get a diploma. They go for a GED, simple as that. Grades 9-12 should imbed everything up to Pre-Calc, they should know it so well that when they get into college their isn't a question whether or not they know it. College level Sophomores should start Calc, it should be required to know everything up to pre-calc to start college.

Is this too strict? No, this is the 21'st century and we ARE evolving.
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post #140 of 341
I am an computer engineering student myself, I honestly dont blame those people who are dropping out. Its really hard, without dedication and passion, you will end up not succeeding.

On the bright side people who do graduate will be valuable, and should find a good job with good pay.

In my opinion, most people dont think of their future in a long path. They just want to get though university/collage just so they can say they have a degree...

But again not everyone can be engineers
Edited by emin911 - 5/22/11 at 1:52pm
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