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[CNN] Why would-be engineers end up as English majors - Page 19

post #181 of 341
After reading this article and everyones replies, I can say, i really feels there's a large mixture of variables that cause these students to dropout/fail.

The education system: Students were not well enough prepared for college or were made to think everyone needs to go to college to be successful. I know my high school offered AP Calc, but that was usually a class of less than 10. Pre-Calc/Trig is where maybe half of my class would finish. The others would be in lower level math classes.

The professors: SOME professors are just plain terrible and cannot teach well. The professors cannot be for all of the students failing, but when the majority of a 300+ level course fails a test by a large amount, your doing something wrong. I have had some great professors and some terrible ones as well. This one class I have to take for my major(Technology Education), we were required to observe and teach a lesson in Elem, middle and high schools. The professor is required to set these up for it, mine failed to do so, forcing me to take an incomplete in the class, cheat, or break the schools policy for setting up these observations. I opted for the incomplete and ended up putting me a semester behind because of it. The school actually was looking into the situation as a lot of students complained she was not doing her job.

Students: I know I for one am not one to study hard, but can usually grasp most of the concepts I need to for my classes. A lot of students feel they can make it by skipping every class and partying all the time. I attend most of my classes unless I learn its equally beneficial to skip the class and learn the content on my own. I cannot 100% blame some of these students though because they may not be ready/wanting to be in college anyways.

One thing I know is that my major is a step in the right direction for the education system. Technology Education really focuses on STEM. Tech Ed is really about applying concepts taught in science and math using technology and engineering.

To the person who mentioned he wished his school had robotics/programming, that is something I completely agree with. I had both of them in my High School, and I am so happy I had them. I only know the basic concepts of programming now, and can do some programming in RobotC for Vex robots, but I feel I learned a lot from the classes.
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post #182 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
What are you talking about? Most of the highest paying jobs are science/math related. With the exception of law, what careers are you thinking about?

That is quite a generalization about science majors. Don't forget that math and science is the basis of many majors.

STEM degrees do tend to be the hardest majors.... go on a campus and ask around.




The wealthy elite tend to inherit money... unless they are self-made.
I agree. STEM degrees are more difficult. I've received my BSc in Financial Economics and I'll tell you, econometrics, forecasting & statistics are exponentially more difficult than any liberal arts majors. English? Please.
 
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post #183 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
What are you talking about? Most of the highest paying jobs are science/math related. With the exception of law, what careers are you thinking about?

That is quite a generalization about science majors. Don't forget that math and science is the basis of many majors.

STEM degrees do tend to be the hardest majors.... go on a campus and ask around.

The wealthy elite tend to inherit money... unless they are self-made.
Politicians, lawyers, entrepreneurs etc. The list goes on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek View Post
You mean like the handful of people who make it as athletes, musicians, wallstreet entrepreneurs etc? This is hardly statically significant.

Meanwhile, the 300 million other Americans are working real jobs where a bachelors degree in a science field grabs you a 100k+ job by the time you are 30 so you can watch 99% of the people you know go back to grad school and get in huge debt to struggle to even find a job at all, let alone one that pays nearly as well.
Interesting, I am only minoring in science (not majoring in it), I will have a Masters when I'm 22 and already a secure job when I'm done with it. I wasn't even thinking of athletes or musicians. And seriously, you want to go into what a "real job" is and what isn't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudman091878 View Post
The wealthy elite? That's your evidence? Your evidence is the top .1% of the population? That is NOT how you look at these things. On AVERAGE, the highest paying degrees are Math/science related...it is a FACT. The lists that come out every single year say the exact same thing.

The top .1% means absolutely NOTHING in this argument.

You've posted NOTHING to back up what you're saying. Everything I've said is backed up with FACTS.

You continue to live in your fantasy world, I'll go by what I see every single day I go to work.
Maybe that's your problem, you live in your own little world at work where you are the king of the hill. You have not backed up anything with facts, you merely provided some biased numbers suited to your agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Don't bother... he does not believe in science or math. Statistics are meaningless!



Squirrel.... If you don't mind me asking, how old are you and what do you do for a living?

What non-STEM careers (other than law) gets you $80K with relative ease by the time you are 30?
1) Please refrain from making statements like "he does not believe in science or math" just because I disagree that they are the highest paid jobs In fact I'm minoring in a science field, so that just shows that your statement is wrong.
2) 20 & I'm a senior undergrad. Look up top for the answer to your question.
Edited by Squirrel - 5/22/11 at 7:26pm
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post #184 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
Speaking of difficulty with English (not aiming at you BTW ), here's a Salon article that has been making the mailing list rounds in academia for a bit now:

http://www.salon.com/life/feature/20...school_english
That is an interesting story. It helps to explain why so many people butcher there their, and your, you're, etc.

I freely admit that I have a spelling/grammar disability. For me personally my issues don't stem from a lack of education. I wish that it did. The odd part is that I have zero issues reading or speaking english.
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post #185 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFrost View Post
These are not science / tech based jobs . . . http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/...pay/index.html


IMO difficulty is all relevant. Some people are great at math, some are great at science, others are great at english or history. If a person is great at math, but a horrible writer they will find english class harder then their math class.
Just saying, you do realize every one of those CEOs is in charge of a company based completely on Math Science or Technology, exept Disney and Phillip Morris possibly? Just because they are CEO doesn't mean they do not understand STEM concepts. Most of them probably got their because of their knowlege.

Just one Example: William C. Weldon, Biology major, eventually became CEO of Johnson and Johnson. SOURCE
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post #186 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel View Post
Politicians, lawyers, entrepreneurs etc. The list goes on.
1) Politicians - most politicians make nothing or close to nothing. If you want to talk about the top few thousand positions in politics, most do not have a political science degree. Most politicians start in another career or have a day job. Also, the top percentile is not indicative of the majority. If you want to use the top percentile, STEM jobs destroys politicians in average and top income.
2) Lawyers - already excluded.
3) Entrepreneurs. The majority of entrepreneurship fail. In addition, entrepreneurs is not a career for the vast majority of people. Furthermore, entrepreneurship is not mutually exclusive from STEM. (See: Silicon Valley)

So far, your list consists of nothing.
Edited by DuckieHo - 5/22/11 at 7:35pm
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post #187 of 341
Personally, I think the whole college and university system is messed up.

You are right, we need more math and science grads, but the problem starts are the middle school and high school level.

Way too many people are going to college. We dont need anymore lawyers, accountants, english,history, teachers nurses and health care professionals , people with degrees in marketing or writing. They are all USELESS! We already have too many.

You dont need to go to a university for 5 years to learn how to teach middle school history class.

More people need to get into technical programs in US from early age.

You could probably shave off at least 1/3 of high school students in this country cause they arent learning anything useful for their future, and most of them dont put any effort into their studies. Then these same people with c+/b- average in very easy school are supposed to go to college for 4 years to learn some easy trade that they probalby wont even be able to get a job in.

Public teachers dont make much starting out, but in US the benefits for teachers are insane. Massages and viagra, retire at 55. I know a man who is a millionaire teacher. He taught phy ed class and got paids alot extra cause he had PHD in phy ed. Nope, nothing wrong with making 120,000 a year being phy ed teacher PLUS the ultimate benefits package. Go to a parking lot in a school. Look at the teachers cars. Show me one teacher driving a beater. You wont find it.
post #188 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoochee View Post
Just saying, you do realize every one of those CEOs is in charge of a company based completely on Math Science or Technology, exept Disney and Phillip Morris possibly? Just because they are CEO doesn't mean they do not understand STEM concepts. Most of them probably got their because of their knowlege.

Just one Example: William C. Weldon, Biology major, eventually became CEO of Johnson and Johnson. SOURCE

However, all of those CEO's are no longer working in the STEM field. There are also a larger number of CEO's who go from company to company. The reason they were hired for that is their business skills not their STEM skills.
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post #189 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
1) Politicians - most politicians make nothing or close to nothing. If you want to talk about the top few thousand positions in politics, most do not have a political science degree. Most politicians start in another career.
2) Lawyers - already excluded.
3) Entrepreneurs. The majority of entrepreneurship fail. In addition, entrepreneurs is not a career for the vast majority of people. Furthermore, entrepreneurship is not mutually exclusive from STEM. (See: Silicon Valley)

So far, your list consists of nothing.
If we exclude engineering, your list consists of nothing.

Furthermore, you are just twisting arguments. Did I say that a political science degree=lots of money? I was talking about occupations. And MP's here in Canada make 150k/year, so politicians do in fact make a lot of money. The same goes for bureaucrats, while the entry level jobs obviously won't get you 80k, the mid range jobs do.

But this argument will get nowhere because this forum consists of 95% science majors who are afraid of getting their ego hurt online. It's like trying to argue that a ready-build PC has some use in RL, or that Apple isn't completely crap.
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post #190 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFrost View Post
However, all of those CEO's are no longer working in the STEM field. There are also a larger number of CEO's who go from company to company. The reason they were hired for that is their business skills not their STEM skills.
CEO are not really indicative of the majority though. Most people don't aspire to become a CEO out of college.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel View Post
If we exclude engineering, your list consists of nothing.

Furthermore, you are just twisting arguments. Did I say that a political science degree=lots of money? I was talking about occupations. And MP's here in Canada make 150k/year, so politicians do in fact make a lot of money. The same goes for bureaucrats, while the entry level jobs obviouslya won't get you 80k, the mid range jobs do.

But this argument will get nowhere because this forum consists of 95% science majors who are afraid of getting their ego hurt online. It's like trying to argue that a ready-build PC has some use in RL, or that Apple isn't completely crap.
You do realize the broadness of engineering? Civil, software, computer, materials, industry, biomedical, financial, environmental, etc.

Actuaries and Quants make $60K easy out of college.

You are arguing about occupations.... how do you get into certain occupations? Do you just leave high school and get the job as MP? We're talking about career paths and majors. Your arguement falls into "The .US President is not a STEM occupation and is one of the most powerful jobs in the world. Hence, STEM fields are not the hardest and make a lot of money."

The vast majority of politicians do NOT make a lot of money. You are forgetting the majority of about local (city, county, state) politics.

I'm not a science major. I work in software/system development for a financial company. I know have good ideas how much financial companies pay. i.e. My wife use to work for Lehman Bros as an administrative assistant and entry pay was $60K. You want to guess how much everyone else made?


Unlike uses of OEMs or Apples, average income over time is not subjective.... you can provide statistics.
Edited by DuckieHo - 5/22/11 at 7:56pm
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