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Calling all HVAC experts to help with a new chilled water project.[Now Window Unit] - Page 3

post #21 of 65
Now you've gone and done it...


You got me thinking about this, so now I'm starting to piece together how I would do this, and now I want to put one together.
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Cletus
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post #22 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike597 View Post
Now you've gone and done it...


You got me thinking about this, so now I'm starting to piece together how I would do this, and now I want to put one together.
Hells yeah, it's fun. (And awesome.)

All you have to do is find a window unit and remove the blower and any shroud around it so you have free space around the evaporator coil to build a water tight box around. Put a inlet/outlet in the box and attach a pump. From there all you need is a water block and insulation. (Goop stuff + any tube insulator.) + Dielectric grease to mush all in your CPU socket.

I mean what do I know I've never actually done it, but Vega has and that's what he did!

Another random picture: Don't mind my dirty workstation area.


(Right click --> View Image to resize to screen.)

..and hell I think Vega used the regular LG ones from home depot. You can get his exact model I believe for around 400 dollars.

Entry level only costs you 100! Now I don't know how much space you have to work with but... if it did work you can set up one of these systems for less than 350 after all blocks tubing and insulation is purchased, and there is no way a regular water cooling system is going to beat that for 350.

Pros:
  • Extremely chilly temperatures.
  • Only restriction on pump would be your blocks, no radiators(High flow heaven.)
  • Possibly the best performance : price ratio.
Cons:
  • Looks ugly if you use old equipment.
  • Raises electricity bill. (I believe a 5000 BTU 24/7 is like 20-80 a month? There's really no good estimates as it all depends on how much you make the compressor run.)
  • Takes up a window.... I mean unless you want to pump hot air in your room for winter.
  • Noise, get some really concealed headphones unless you feel like running 40 feet of tubing and buying a powerful pump.

Edited by Khaotik55 - 5/22/11 at 6:35pm
post #23 of 65
Thread Starter 
So far here's my parts list:

Water Block EK Supreme HF Acetal $78.66 (Internet, shipping included.)
Dragon Skin(Fast Version) Silicone Rubber $44.44 (Internet, shipping included.)
3oz Dielectric Grease $6 (Autozone)
25ft 7/16 tubing $8 (HVAC Supply)
25ft insulation $12 (HVAC Supply)
8,900BTU A/C Free (Shed )
Water Box Materials $~30?? (Haven't figured out what I'm going to build.)
Pump Free (Already own one)
================================================
Total: $~179.1

This is what I will be gooping:

Edited by Khaotik55 - 5/22/11 at 6:40pm
post #24 of 65
The compressor in that unit probably will not last very long running the evaporator temperature down to what it would take to make 0 to 10ºC water. R-22 is a somewhat less than optimal refrigerant for the compression ratio involved, but is still ok.
The big thing is that the metering device, probably just a capillary tube, will require modification.

No compressor will last long if it is getting flooded with refrigerant due to an over sized metering device.

An under sized metering device is just as destructive.
In refrigeration applications, R-22 tends to run pretty high discharge temperatures, even when everything is engineered correctly.
If you have to low of return vapor density to the compressor due to an under sized metering device, the discharge temps can get high enough to cook the oil pretty fast.
The motor windings in that rotary compressor are cooled by the hot discharge gas, so you can also end up cooking the insulation on the windings if the discharge temps are to high, and to low density, due to an undersized metering device + high compression ratio.

I'm not trying to discourage you from the project, but with the equipment you are using, I would strongly recommend you go with a higher water temperature than the 0º to 10ºC you stated as your goal.
15-20ºC, preferably with a smaller evaporator, would be more reliable.
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Grog
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post #25 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleal View Post
The compressor in that unit probably will not last very long running the evaporator temperature down to what it would take to make 0 to 10ºC water. R-22 is a somewhat less than optimal refrigerant for the compression ratio involved, but is still ok.
The big thing is that the metering device, probably just a capillary tube, will require modification.

No compressor will last long if it is getting flooded with refrigerant due to an over sized metering device.

An under sized metering device is just as destructive.
In refrigeration applications, R-22 tends to run pretty high discharge temperatures, even when everything is engineered correctly.
If you have to low of return vapor density to the compressor due to an under sized metering device, the discharge temps can get high enough to cook the oil pretty fast.
The motor windings in that rotary compressor are cooled by the hot discharge gas, so you can also end up cooking the insulation on the windings if the discharge temps are to high, and to low density, due to an undersized metering device + high compression ratio.

I'm not trying to discourage you from the project, but with the equipment you are using, I would strongly recommend you go with a higher water temperature than the 0º to 10ºC you stated as your goal.
15-20ºC, preferably with a smaller evaporator, would be more reliable.
I have the resources to make any and all adjustments necessary. I'm basically doing this by myself but I can simply get help from my father which owns his HVAC business. Hence why I have access to R-22 drums(and more) in the first place.

All I ask you to do is ask me the question I would have to ask my father.

Actually one more question, how is Vega running a 15,000BTU unit to where it cools his fluid down to -30 without harming his unit? Or is it harming his unit? Or is it harmless due to the newer refrigerant/design? I believe this is the unit Vega is running.
Edited by Khaotik55 - 5/22/11 at 7:45pm
post #26 of 65
From my understanding, most people that do this remove some of the refrigerant charge to compensate for the low operating temp. As Caleal mentioned, you will be using this unit far below it's design temps, as such you will need to change a few other things. Your dad being in the business will be able to help you monitor pressures and the appropriate temps (suction line, liquid line, etc) so you can remove the right amount of refrigerant. This isn't the ideal unit for your application, but I think you will be able to pull it off. How long it will operate, I have no idea.

Not to change your entire project, but given the new info that your dad does this for a living I would ask if he ever runs into any refrigeration equipment that is repairable (restaurant walk-in freezers, etc). Supply houses that he gets equipment from also would be able to get him low-temp condensing units that come in many capacities and are designed with the right refrigerant for this operation. Not sure if this is a viable option, but it's the way I'm probably going to go. With all the work involved, I want mine to last and perform as intended.
Cletus
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Cletus
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post #27 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotik55 View Post
Actually upon first replying to you I said I didn't want to go that big, but on second thought that's just a window unit, which I happen to have... I might just do what he did, thanks for the idea.

Your post just changed my entire future. (lol)

By the way the window unit I have is 12,000 BTU. Vega has a 15,000 BTU. Now all I have to do is make a box for the evaporator coil to sit in and buy some Dragon Skin silicon like Vega did. I like that goop.
Ha! Glad I could help! lol

Seems like Mike and Caleal have some good knowledge on this, I'm just an HVAC engineering student now so they know far more than I do.
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post #28 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike597 View Post
Supply houses that he gets equipment from also would be able to get him low-temp condensing units that come in many capacities and are designed with the right refrigerant for this operation. Not sure if this is a viable option, but it's the way I'm probably going to go. With all the work involved, I want mine to last and perform as intended.
I can only work with what I have, which is a few refrigerator compressors and this window unit. I can't go spending money on a brand new low-temp condenser, but that would work...
post #29 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotik55 View Post
Actually one more question, how is Vega running a 15,000BTU unit to where it cools his fluid down to -30 without harming his unit? Or is it harming his unit? Or is it harmless due to the newer refrigerant/design? I believe this is the unit Vega is running.
Well, one thing I have to admit I'm a bit guilty of.
I tend to look at things from the perspective of refrigeration systems having life spans of 15 to 20 years, or more.
For the most part, compressors used in AC and refrigeration are among the most reliable electromechanical devices there are.
Compressor failures, even after >10 years are almost always due to an external cause. Issues with application, installation, maintenance, failure of other components, etc..

I sometimes have to remind myself, or be reminded by others, that there are applications where the equipment only has to last a couple of years before it is obsolete anyway.
Edited by Caleal - 5/22/11 at 10:08pm
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Grog
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post #30 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleal View Post
Well, one thing I have to admit I'm a bit guilty of.
I tend to look at things from the perspective of refrigeration systems having life spans of 15 to 20 years, or more.
For the most part, compressors used in AC and refrigeration are among the most reliable electromechanical devices there are.
Compressor failures, even after >10 years are almost always due to an external cause. Issues with application, installation, maintenance, failure of other components, etc..

I sometimes have to remind myself, or be reminded by others, that there are applications where the equipment only has to last a couple of years before it is obsolete anyway.
I have no problem with it dying in 3 years to be honest, or even 2 most likely. I can upgrade my A/C units like I upgrade my video cards. (haha)

I just don't want it to die in a month.
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