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post #31 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by eno439 View Post

the next gen mmo will come from blizzard with titan i have a feeling, right after they are done with the last expansion we will learn more about the game, or even this year we will get a small teaser from blizzcon, but all wow fans will transfer to titan and will still own a huge part of the mmo community just because its blizzard

i agree. gw2 is nice and all but i dont think that it has the sticking power of wow. actually i dont know if anything will stick as hard as wow. maybe titan because blizzard probably knows the mmo world more than anyone. but we will have to wait and see.

    
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post #32 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by eno439 View Post

the next gen mmo will come from blizzard with titan i have a feeling, right after they are done with the last expansion we will learn more about the game, or even this year we will get a small teaser from blizzcon, but all wow fans will transfer to titan and will still own a huge part of the mmo community just because its blizzard
lachen.gif

Maybe if by next-gen you mean playable on a tablet. Blizzard is done doing anything useful with this genre or any other. They've tasted the milk of the casual-cow and won't be weaned from it any time this decade.
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post #33 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by eno439 View Post

the next gen mmo will come from blizzard with titan i have a feeling, right after they are done with the last expansion we will learn more about the game, or even this year we will get a small teaser from blizzcon, but all wow fans will transfer to titan and will still own a huge part of the mmo community just because its blizzard
lachen.gif

Maybe if by next-gen you mean playable on a tablet. Blizzard is done doing anything useful with this genre or any other. They've tasted the milk of the casual-cow and won't be weaned from it any time this decade.

yeah but who has really done anything better than them?

    
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post #34 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolith View Post

yeah but who has really done anything better than them?

So many that I can't count. The only appeal that WoW has is mass appeal. EQ1 and 2, Asheron's Call, DAOC, UO, etc etc... were all better games fundamentally, but didn't have the ability to draw in the general gaming population, largely because of a much longer learning curve. All of those games and many others demanded a lot more from their players, and often got a lot more out of them. Hell, in Everquest players completed raids that weren't supposed to be completed. There were some dungeons that contained mobs that were designed to be unbeatable, and existed only for historic purposes. The players beat them.

For sake of simplicity, I'll keep the discussion to graphical MMO's. A fine print list of text MMO's that are fundamentally better than WoW would be longer than my arm.
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post #35 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

So many that I can't count. The only appeal that WoW has is mass appeal. EQ1 and 2, Asheron's Call, DAOC, UO, etc etc... were all better games fundamentally, but didn't have the ability to draw in the general gaming population, largely because of a much longer learning curve. All of those games and many others demanded a lot more from their players, and often got a lot more out of them. Hell, in Everquest players completed raids that weren't supposed to be completed. There were some dungeons that contained mobs that were designed to be unbeatable, and existed only for historic purposes. The players beat them.

For sake of simplicity, I'll keep the discussion to graphical MMO's. A fine print list of text MMO's that are fundamentally better than WoW would be longer than my arm.

I disagree that your listed games we're better then WoW. WoW had better gameplay by miles, good lore, better pace of progression for either casual or hardcore. The gameplay alone, with all classes having interesting skills and faster paced combat, made WoW so much better. I'm mostly speaking from my experience from EQ1. EQ1 was hardcore in a bad sense, it was hardcore because of those 6 hours or more raids of boring trash cleaning, 24h or more respawn timers, the grinding, getting less than 1 piece of gear per month of hardcore raiding. WoW was a success for many reasons, and not only for catering to the casuals.

I think the next-gen mmo will stray away from the current content model that consist of the developers having to constantly produce content for players. No more gating of players with long respawn timer, entry limits, RNG on RNG on RNG, because your player grind through the content in a couple weeks or months.
post #36 of 60
I've not really seen any changes in MMO's in the years I've been playing. I mean there have been some good ones such as
Ragnarok Online
Sword of the New world
Silk Road (Online)
Monster Hunter (Not sure if considered MMO though)

But as stated by a few here its same thing over and over fundamentally. which is what would have to change for me to consider it "next-gen"
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post #37 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by patlefort View Post

I disagree that your listed games we're better then WoW. WoW had better gameplay by miles, good lore, better pace of progression for either casual or hardcore. The gameplay alone, with all classes having interesting skills and faster paced combat, made WoW so much better. I'm mostly speaking from my experience from EQ1. EQ1 was hardcore in a bad sense, it was hardcore because of those 6 hours or more raids of boring trash cleaning, 24h or more respawn timers, the grinding, getting less than 1 piece of gear per month of hardcore raiding. WoW was a success for many reasons, and not only for catering to the casuals.

I think the next-gen mmo will stray away from the current content model that consist of the developers having to constantly produce content for players. No more gating of players with long respawn timer, entry limits, RNG on RNG on RNG, because your player grind through the content in a couple weeks or months.

And you were perfectly fine raiding without that 1 piece of gear you spent a month getting weren't you? WoW raids are nothing but gear-checks. You don't have the right gear? You fail. No skill is necessary, all you have to do is spam macros. EQ grinding was nothing compared to what you had to do in it's predecessors, it's pacing was great, but for some reason people think that you should be capped out, gear and level-wise, in a couple months nowadays? Where did that come from? EQ1 has over a dozen expansion packs, and is still popular. Perhaps you people don't realize that MMO's were originally engineered for decades of gaming, and that pretty much everything is built upon that base? WoW just managed to screw that up so badly that it was forgotten, I guess. UO's storyline is still going to this day, and people are enjoying it immensely. People have been clamoring for Asheron's Call 2 to be brought back. Guess what? It's being brought back.

Understand this: The MMO's I cut my teeth on didn't have level caps. There were no tiers of equipment. Some of them, leveling was optional. Some of these MMO's have people who have been playing for 17 or 18 years and still haven't reached the soft level cap. I'd still be playing these games and loving every moment, because the depth and variety, the history and culture that they offer is phenomenal. But I have a shopping addiction, commonly referred to as Steamitis. This results in me having 1000's of hours of game content that I have purchased and have yet to play, so FREE games have been set aside for the time being. But that's okay, because those games will be there waiting on me when I'm ready.

Wanna talk about a grindfest? WoW is a grindfest. All there is to do in that game is grind raids. You get your "toon" geared up, you go raid the next boss continually until you have your next tier of gear, and then you repeat. Once you've done all of that, you can fill your free hours of time with pointless daily fetch quests. Raiding is only supposed to be a small part of the "End game" as it has come to be referred to as. The entire purpose of an MMO in the first place is to allow large groups of people to interact within a game environment. WoW does exactly the opposite of this. No 100 man raids with the goal of "killing that elf that sells the black bread", no more flash mobs since players keep getting banned in them, no player organized treasure hunts because ground drops aren't allowed. Other games have GM run events where players can participate in dynamic custom quests and earn unique rewards. WoW has PvP..... Which virtually all other MMO's have. Really?

Why would you want to make this trade? Things have gone so far downhill people don't even realize what they've lost. Don't get me wrong, it didn't start with WoW, but when WoW jumped on the bus as it was barrelling towards hell they decided the best way to enjoy the trip would be to set it on fire.

Set your sights higher people, not lower.
Edited by Ganf - 1/10/13 at 5:52pm
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post #38 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

And you were perfectly fine raiding without that 1 piece of gear you spent a month getting weren't you? WoW raids are nothing but gear-checks. You don't have the right gear? You fail. No skill is necessary, all you have to do is spam macros. EQ grinding was nothing compared to what you had to do in it's predecessors, it's pacing was great, but for some reason people think that you should be capped out, gear and level-wise, in a couple months nowadays? Where did that come from? EQ1 has over a dozen expansion packs, and is still popular. Perhaps you people don't realize that MMO's were originally engineered for decades of gaming, and that pretty much everything is built upon that base? WoW just managed to screw that up so badly that it was forgotten, I guess. UO's storyline is still going to this day, and people are enjoying it immensely. People have been clamoring for Asheron's Call 2 to be brought back. Guess what? It's being brought back.

Understand this: The MMO's I cut my teeth on didn't have level caps. There were no tiers of equipment. Some of them, leveling was optional. Some of these MMO's have people who have been playing for 17 or 18 years and still haven't reached the soft level cap. I'd still be playing these games and loving every moment, because the depth and variety, the history and culture that they offer is phenomenal. But I have a shopping addiction, commonly referred to as Steamitis. This results in me having 1000's of hours of game content that I have purchased and have yet to play, so FREE games have been set aside for the time being. But that's okay, because those games will be there waiting on me when I'm ready.

Wanna talk about a grindfest? WoW is a grindfest. All there is to do in that game is grind raids. You get your "toon" geared up, you go raid the next boss continually until you have your next tier of gear, and then you repeat. Once you've done all of that, you can fill your free hours of time with pointless daily fetch quests. Raiding is only supposed to be a small part of the "End game" as it has come to be referred to as. The entire purpose of an MMO in the first place is to allow large groups of people to interact within a game environment. WoW does exactly the opposite of this. No 100 man raids with the goal of "killing that elf that sells the black bread", no more flash mobs since players keep getting banned in them, no player organized treasure hunts because ground drops aren't allowed. Other games have GM run events where players can participate in dynamic custom quests and earn unique rewards. WoW has PvP..... Which virtually all other MMO's have. Really?

Why would you want to make this trade? Things have gone so far downhill people don't even realize what they've lost. Don't get me wrong, it didn't start with WoW, but when WoW jumped on the bus as it was barrelling towards hell they decided the best way to enjoy the trip would be to set it on fire.

Set your sights higher people, not lower.

^This, 100% and I played WoW up through Cata, but no MMO has brought me the joy, the fun, the frustration, or the satisfaction that FFXI did before SE destroyed it.
 
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post #39 of 60
Bah, screwed that up, meant to edit my post for spelling and frickin quoted it instead... Fail.
 
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post #40 of 60
I am not going to say WoW is the end all of mmorpg or that it doesn't have grinding. But the pace was better. I am comparing it to the older mmorpgs.

Let's face it, in EQ1, you raided for gear, like in WoW. No one would want to go through so much boring trash cleaning dozen of times otherwise. Getting nothing over and over again over so much work was a major problem. It's not about getting capped, but about getting something. I don't know about its predecessor, but it was probably meant for masochists? Gear was probably less important before Luclin and PoP, but gear got some major boosts in stats and became much more important. You did need gear so that your tank doesn't get one shotted. Raids were certainly gear checks and also number of players, level, AA and especially, patience checks. Very little skills. Most bosses were a matter of downing it before you ran out of resources. WoW had more interesting boss mechanics and mostly, more interesting gameplay.

That bring me to my most important point: The gameplay. The thing you do 99% of the time, killing stuff. Rarely do I hear people talk about it when they talk about older games. Because it was bad, very very bad. Let's compare the warrior in WoW to the warrior in EQ1: What did you do as a warrior in EQ1? Auto attack, taunt. A useless kick, a more or less useful bash. That's IT. Not tanking? Have fun watching your character auto attack. You have a couple disciplines with very long cooldowns that was added later. I think we know that warriors in WoW have many more skills and one of the most interesting mechanic, the rage bar.

I agree that more dynamic content and player run events is great. I agree that some of these older mmos had great features. I don't have the answer to all current problems. I find people to be way too harsh on WoW.
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