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Bulldozer Questions from an Intel User. - Page 4

post #31 of 162
Ugh, guys why the mass confusion?!?!?! LOL!!!

BD has modules in each module there is a shared front end and shared L2, 2 more narrow, yet efficient INT cores and a FPU cluster independent of the INT cores yet able to service each core as needed.

SB has your traditional full blown core yet adds HT into the mix, when in extremely crappy code can yield up to 30% increase in performance per core.

The thought process is as such:
With HT, you gain slight increase in speed when code cannot fully saturate the entire core.
With CMT(AMD BD) you have 2 not as powerful INT cores but able to keep the cores more fully saturated due to the shared front end and narrower / more effecient INT cores.

So, on one hand you have a full blown core that isnt great at being fully saturated using HT to maintain better saturation. On the other hand you have slightly weaker cores with a more efficient front end being able to keep those cores intelligently saturated.
Boiling down to something like, one core with up to 30% increase(rarely, practically like 5-10%) or .. 2 cores that when fully saturated are performing 80% of 2 real big cores w/o HT.


PS, and yes the FP cluster services SSE/MMX INT math as well. It has 4 pipes, 2 128bit FMAC's and 2 128bit SSE/MMX INT pipies.
Edited by GenTarkin - 5/24/11 at 3:08pm
    
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post #32 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
hehe

I have two glasses of water here, one is filled to the top and the other is filled up only 60%.

I still have two glasses of water, however only one is full.

Its fine if you want to call it 4 real cores, then we can compare it directly to the i7-2600k and nothing else when it comes out since the i7-2600k by your logic still only has 4 cores.
I think you should just compare SB and BD using the price when BD comes out.

Who cares how many cores each chip has, what is the performance for the money?
post #33 of 162
Because 4 cores is max performance in 99% of games, outside of that you can maybe talk about rendering and other things that I won't really discuss since I rarely ever do them and my setup encodes about 100 times faster than I can upload anyways.

JF already said that if only a single core was used there would be no increased performance from it (outside of power gating). He only stated that the cores operate at 80% of what a full bulldozer core would.

The idea behind the bulldozer design was simple, cut cost, increase core count, forget about performance per core. AMD isn't attempting to beat SB with bulldozer, they're attempting to give you more slower cores at a reduced cost to them as well as allowing them to price them competitively while maximizing profits.

There is no other way around it. If the eight core bulldozer chip is going to compete against intels x4, then AMD needed to figure out a way to make 8 cores cost either the same or less than 4.
    
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post #34 of 162
lol its funny when intel fans gets all huffy puffy talking about the 8 vs 4 cores thing... GO READ ABOUT CPU ARCHITECTURE.

To sum it up, Intel uses die space to add SMT to allow 1 core to push 2 threads. AMD also decided to push 2 threads across 1 "core" but decided to do it a totally new way, where they basically merge 2 cores and make them share the less used parts.

So its basically the same. Both Intel and AMD have "full cores" with added real estate to push a second thread, Intel does it with SMT, AMD is doing it with modular "cores".

If you really think a 2 module DB should compete against a 4 core SB, you clearly need to go do some research, because you have no idea what your talking about...
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post #35 of 162
My i5-2500k doesn't have either.

L2, L3, NB, Fetch, fp scheduler, and Decode, those don't seem like "less used" parts to me. I think there are a few more important things that are shared as well.

I think four cores should compete against four, but I guess I'm just crazy.
    
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post #36 of 162
Thread Starter 
Honestly all I care about is whatever will render images faster out of Maya for me. Whether it's Intel's 4 cores that turn into 8 with Hyperthreading or Bulldozer's 4 modules containing 2 cores each...the question is the same: which renders faster? Only time will be able to answer that one I suppose.

It is good to know about socket limitations though. It looks like my next build will simply use whichever company releases their server processors the fastest. I need at least 2 on a board for what I do...a 4 proc server board would be extremely nice, but things start getting prohibitively expensive.
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post #37 of 162
*sigh* We really need to wait for those bench marks.
    
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post #38 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post

JF already said that if only a single core was used there would be no increased performance from it (outside of power gating). He only stated that the cores operate at 80% of what a full bulldozer core would.
This is the bit that's wrong.

He said if a single core is working it will have access to all the resources of a full BD core - not 80%, that only applies if two cores are working in a module.

So single thread BD will be 100% BD power.
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post #39 of 162
As bulldozer gets closer and closer now, i'm getting less and less excited for it. I definitely think i'll be sticking with my sandy bridge setup because I game. I don't think bulldozer will stand a chance in gaming.

But, I think it should offer some awesome rendering performance and awesome folding performance at a decent price.
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post #40 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by kweechy View Post
Honestly all I care about is whatever will render images faster out of Maya for me. Whether it's Intel's 4 cores that turn into 8 with Hyperthreading or Bulldozer's 4 modules containing 2 cores each...the question is the same: which renders faster? Only time will be able to answer that one I suppose.

It is good to know about socket limitations though. It looks like my next build will simply use whichever company releases their server processors the fastest. I need at least 2 on a board for what I do...a 4 proc server board would be extremely nice, but things start getting prohibitively expensive.
Wouldn't a workstation card help in that? Maybe change out that 460 for an 8800 and softmod to Quadro. If you use it as a work and gaming machine then maybe look into getting a cheaper proc like an i5-2500K (or an AMD X6 if that's what you want), 8800GT/GTX to FX 3700 or FX 4600, putting the 12GB RAM into that system, and doing your renders on that.
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