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HTPC: Perfect Playback, 24p with Samsung D630. - Page 2

post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandMax;13644021 
1. Do you have a 120Hz set?
2. Do you use Auto Motion Plus or another anti-judder?
3. Do you do 24Hz playback to get rid of the 3-2 pull down problem of 60Hz playback?

1. i think so
2. i think i have auto motion plus
3. not sure how to answer this.
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post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kujon;13661495 
1. i think so
2. i think i have auto motion plus
3. not sure how to answer this.

Well, your display will show a number of image per second equal to its refresh rate. If you want to display a 24 fps movie with a 120hz display, you will show each image 5 times in a row, resulting in 24*5=120.

If you try to display the same movie with a 60hz rate, you will need to show some frames 3 times and some frame twice to make 24 images fit in the 60 available slots. We call this 2/3 pulldown. It looks like a judder effect, especially noticeable when the camera pans (move sideways). Indeed, some frames will remains on screen 33ms and others for 50ms. In other terms, this means the frame rate will jump from 20 to 30 all the time and 20fps is pretty damn low.

Setting your display to 24Hz, can resolve this, but again, movies aren't real 24hz, they are actually 23.976 fps. To sync the display and ensure no frames are dropped, you can distort slightly the audio (speed up) to make it fits with a real 24 fps. This will not be noticeable but it will prevent frame being dropped and the media will now be 24hz. Reclock does this well.

Now, this comes as a surprise. The motion enhancement effect (AMP) of Samsung D630 resulted in very large amount of stutter (lag, frame skip or pauses) at 60Hz. It was so bad I thought the TV was defective. However, it works very well with 24hz. Watch BBC life or Planet Earth at 24hz with AMP is very impressive and smooth. While no frame are dropped, it seems that AMP misses a few times per minute but it is still infinitely better with than without.

However, to make sure AMP and other image processing are available, you must not use the game mode or edit the source name as PC. Doing this, will require you to correct the image by adjusting the HDMI overscan. One also needs to reduce sharpness a little bit.

If you have a 120hz set with an HTPC, you should enforce a 24hz desktop refresh rate when playing movies and other 24ish sources. Autofrequency does this very well and fully automatically. You don't want to keep the 24hz on the desktop due to terrible mouse lag.

More testing to be done shortly.
Edited by GrandMax - 6/2/11 at 1:33pm
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post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
So I did more testing.

It looks like setting the display to 23hz actually gives me precisely 23.976hz which is exactly the movie fps. I will still use reclock as it reencodes my wmv audio to 5.1. However, it would not be essential since my 6870s can display very accurately the 23.976 fps.

The image is even smoother now and the quality with madVR is simply astonishing but it uses my CPU at more than 25% as well as my GPU. One core is even at 60%.
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post #14 of 24
yep, for me 23hz is 23.976 and 24 is 24.000 (pretty rare), works beautifully on my sony tv
post #15 of 24
Not sure how you can get perfect 24p playback with MPC-HC. I have tried all combination of different video cards, filters, reflesh rate, w/wo reclock etc etc.. It is just impossible to get 24p playback without audio sync issue. However 60Hz works just fine with no audio sync issue. Also, no matter what reflesh rate I use, I get very little stuttering in every 10 sec with AMP turned on on my Samsung LED TV. I think it is the limitation of HTPC. I am giving it up....

PS: my PS3 plays the same disc at 24Hz without any issue at all. So it is the HTPC.
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goemonate;13698732 
Not sure how you can get perfect 24p playback with MPC-HC. I have tried all combination of different video cards, filters, reflesh rate, w/wo reclock etc etc.. It is just impossible to get 24p playback without audio sync issue. However 60Hz works just fine with no audio sync issue. Also, no matter what reflesh rate I use, I get very little stuttering in every 10 sec with AMP turned on on my Samsung LED TV. I think it is the limitation of HTPC. I am giving it up....

PS: my PS3 plays the same disc at 24Hz without any issue at all. So it is the HTPC.

Interesting! AMP does skip a few frames a few times per minute for me too. But, with AMP off, I get no issue and the renderer has no dropped frame. I thought it was a Samsung issue. Don't you get it too with your PS3?

By the way, I need to offset the audio by about 80ms to match the TV processing time. Still get some audio timing fluctuation but they appear acceptable (<25ms).
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post #17 of 24
No, PS3 and my Pioneer bluray player output 24Hz with AMP on perfectly! no skipping, no sync issue.

if you offset the audio which means there is something wrong with the software (or the hardware, i don't know) that cannot process and output 24p correctly. In my case, the offset varies every time... honestly, it is driving me crazy already...




Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandMax;13705579 
Interesting! AMP does skip a few frames a few times per minute for me too. But, with AMP off, I get no issue and the renderer has no dropped frame. I thought it was a Samsung issue. Don't you get it too with your PS3?

By the way, I need to offset the audio by about 80ms to match the TV processing time. Still get some audio timing fluctuation but they appear acceptable (<25ms).
post #18 of 24
I never understood why someone would use amp. Your taking all this time to get proper 23.976 then totally destroying the look of it by turning on amp.

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post #19 of 24
Wish you lived close by GrandMax to help me with my HTPCs. By the sounds of it you should get paid for what you do but I think only geeks would get it, appreciate it, and most importantly be able to make minor adjustments if needed.
    
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post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandMax;13687190 
Well, your display will show a number of image per second equal to its refresh rate. If you want to display a 24 fps movie with a 120hz display, you will show each image 5 times in a row, resulting in 24*5=120.

If you try to display the same movie with a 60hz rate, you will need to show some frames 3 times and some frame twice to make 24 images fit in the 60 available slots. We call this 2/3 pulldown. It looks like a judder effect, especially noticeable when the camera pans (move sideways). Indeed, some frames will remains on screen 83ms and others for 125ms.

Setting your display to 24Hz, can resolve this, but again, movies aren't real 24hz, they are actually 23.976 fps. To sync the display and ensure no frames are dropped, you can distort slightly the audio (speed up) to make it fits with a real 24 fps. This will not be noticeable but it will prevent frame being dropped and the media will now be 24hz. Reclock does this well.

Now, this comes as a surprise. The motion enhancement effect (AMP) of Samsung D630 resulted in very large amount of stutter (lag, frame skip or pauses) at 60Hz. It was so bad I thought the TV was defective. However, it works very well with 24hz. Watch BBC life or Planet Earth at 24hz with AMP is very impressive and smooth. While no frame are dropped, it seems that AMP misses a few times per minute but it is still infinitely better with than without.

However, to make sure AMP and other image processing are available, you must not use the game mode or edit the source name as PC. Doing this, will require you to correct the image by adjusting the HDMI overscan. One also needs to reduce sharpness a little bit.

If you have a 120hz set with an HTPC, you should enforce a 24hz desktop refresh rate when playing movies and other 24ish sources. Autofrequency does this very well and fully automatically. You don't want to keep the 24hz on the desktop due to terrible mouse lag.

More testing to be done shortly.

so owning a 120hz or even 240hz tv would rectify any sync problems?
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