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Why is everyone against dyes in the water? - Page 4

post #31 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
lol yeh send me the block and ill pay for post and packing and then ill show you analysis samples that once again prove my point. Or simple take in to you local uni and ask them what is causing it. That picture proves absolutely nothing what so ever.

@ Tomdarkness As for mayhems yes i am the owner and my grammar is not the best but if you would like to use my grammar as example of you ineptitude then that's fine. If you don't like what im telling you then that up to you but its not my problem if you don't know what your talking about.

@ MCBrown.CA as explained before the coolant is the problem not the dye. but yes they do stain every thing.
Perhaps you could tell us what could possibly leave a residue like that in a system running pure H20 plus a silver killcoil. Just sayin...
    
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post #32 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epitope View Post
Perhaps you could tell us what could possibly leave a residue like that in a system running pure H20 plus a silver killcoil. Just sayin...
Broken down Glycol (if the fluid had it) or tubing (plasticiser or internal coating)
 
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post #33 of 65
I don't think it is really. If you run a company in the UK and claim to be knowledgeable about a subject area then please explain to me how it is unreasonable to expect simple key terms in the given subject area to be spelled correctly? Regardless of how much someone may or may not know, unfortunately, it hardly gives a good impression to people and definitely won't help improve your argument if careless mistakes in presentation are made. I've got no problem if someone's first language is not English but, speaking personally, I would not dream of trying to do business or have a serious discussion in a second language if I was not confident of ensuring that I came across professional and well informed. Sadly, to someone who has no information as to your knowledge in the subject area these anomalies in presentation does not shine yourself in a good light and people tend to judge based on first impressions. I don't think it is right but there is no getting away from the fact people are going to judge.

Furthermore, I don't claim to be an expert in water cooling or dyes (I'm not) but that does not stop me from analysing someone's assertion and my original observation about the vested interest still stands. Regardless of a person's knowledge if that person has a huge vested interest in defending something then forgive me for being highly sceptical of their defence. Unless Mayhem can provide independent evidence to support his claim then I don't see any reason why his claims should be accepted.

I'm not saying anything about if dyes do x,y, or z (or that Mayhem is wrong, he might well be right) just that I don't accept what Mayhem is saying as worthy of consideration without something to back it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phaseshift View Post
Yes mikahel is mayhem from mayhem dyes. The fact that you target him because of his grammar is uncalled for. English is not his strong suit, so give him a break.

My knowledge with dyes is very limited so that is all I'm going to say.
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post #34 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrybutcher View Post
Broken down Glycol (if the fluid had it) or tubing (plasticiser or internal coating)
and where does the glycol come from if the person is running distilled H20...
    
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post #35 of 65
I've seen on here an explanation as to why some blocks are colored with crap like those pictures presented earlier (I believe it was Mayhem in another thread). The way I understood it is that when plasticizer or other "stuff" leaches into the loop, because of it's chemical properties can adhere dye to it from the water column, so when it does settle, it looks like dye has come out of suspension, when the reality is that the dye has just adhered to those chemicals.

I still never recommend people use dyes because I just don't know what the consequence is long term. Lots of people are on both sides of the debate, and I've seen people who I consider knowledgeable and independent advanced computer users on opposite sides of the debate explaining and demonstrating their side of the argument.

I think a lot of the issue comes from that early kits not only used dyes but also used incompatable metals, and tubing that would leach plasticizer into the water column. Because the evidence is colored, we have always assumed it to be the dyes that clog things, but there are so many other possibilities. And since none of us feel the desire to go out and identify what it is that is clogging loops, we've learned to just "play it safe" and go with water as plain as possible, one metal if possible in our loops, and a simple relatively inert silver coil as the best method for hobbyist to run a loop as simple as possible.

I could be totally wrong, but I have a feeling I'm not. I'm also not taking either side of the debate, just offering a possible explanation for so much evidence from one side or the other.
post #36 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.GumbyM.D. View Post
I've seen on here an explanation as to why some blocks are colored with crap like those pictures presented earlier (I believe it was Mayhem in another thread). The way I understood it is that when plasticizer or other "stuff" leaches into the loop, because of it's chemical properties can adhere dye to it from the water column, so when it does settle, it looks like dye has come out of suspension, when the reality is that the dye has just adhered to those chemicals.

I still never recommend people use dyes because I just don't know what the consequence is long term. Lots of people are on both sides of the debate, and I've seen people who I consider knowledgeable and independent advanced computer users on opposite sides of the debate explaining and demonstrating their side of the argument.

I think a lot of the issue comes from that early kits not only used dyes but also used incompatable metals, and tubing that would leach plasticizer into the water column. Because the evidence is colored, we have always assumed it to be the dyes that clog things, but there are so many other possibilities. And since none of us feel the desire to go out and identify what it is that is clogging loops, we've learned to just "play it safe" and go with water as plain as possible, one metal if possible in our loops, and a simple relatively inert silver coil as the best method for hobbyist to run a loop as simple as possible.

I could be totally wrong, but I have a feeling I'm not. I'm also not taking either side of the debate, just offering a possible explanation for so much evidence from one side or the other.
nail on the head . thank you.
post #37 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epitope View Post
and where does the glycol come from if the person is running distilled H20...
So you're saying you had nothing other than distilled and a silver coil, yet you got pink crap in your blocks? What does that have to do with the topic of dyes?
 
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post #38 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
nail on the head . thank you.
I appreciate your approval, but the reality is that unless someone has some facts, we're all just armchair researchers

As an addition of information, when I bought my watercooling kit used, the CPU block looked like this:


It still has that buildup, but it's not a color. It was also generally pretty hard. As far as I can tell from the condition of the equipment I purchased, it was in a loop with no dyes (no staining anywhere). I have seen staining from some dyes in the past, or at minimum HEAVY residue; This was due to Swiftech HydrX. Not all dyes are representative of that example. The point is that this block still has buildup without any dyes being present, and with likely having used pure/distilled water (at time of insertion in loop).

The reality is that water is the universal solvent, and heat makes it worse. Whatever the condition, you will likely get some sort of buildup. I have seen the picture from I believe it was MartinM who had those shiny blocks in his loop for over 18 months or something without showing any signs of adhesion, mineral buildup, dye buildup, etc. I don't doubt it, I just can't explain it. What I can explain is what I've seen, and what I've gathered from information from others' experiences.
post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by phaseshift View Post
Yes mikahel is mayhem from mayhem dyes. The fact that you target him because of his grammar is uncalled for. English is not his strong suit, so give him a break.

My knowledge with dyes is very limited so that is all I'm going to say.
I speak 4 languages, 3 fluently, and I have good grammar? Good grammar should be a part of knowing the language.
    
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post #40 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrybutcher View Post
So you're saying you had nothing other than distilled and a silver coil, yet you got pink crap in your blocks? What does that have to do with the topic of dyes?
I never said they were my blocks. Look at my sig rig, I don't water cool. I'm an avid air cooling fan (pun intended). Personally I think watercooling is overkill and unnecessary. I just enjoy reading about it because I'm always toying with the idea of trying it out but probably never will.
    
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