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The great coolant debate - Page 2

post #11 of 22
I am also confused why coolant is a no no. After reading the description on the Swiftech website, I decided to give theirs a try. I am a sucker for marketing terms, "Maritime Racing Blend" got me, for its "anti corrosive and cooling properties". I was running distilled and kill coil before, did not see a temp change when I made the switch. But Swiftech claims this mix should last 3 years before time to drain and replace. Only time will tell if it was BS or not.
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post #12 of 22
Thread Starter 
Interesting. I emailed XSPC directly and asked them what they would recommend. They said they wouldn't recommend certain brands (Feser One being named directly), but they did recommend Thermochill products.
Edited by RobbyRoyal - 5/25/11 at 12:30pm
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post #13 of 22
Here's a technical explanation as to why water is the best coolant. I'll keep this simple. Experts may be tempted to point out things that I missed, and they may be correct. But, I believe that I have captured the main logic.

The heat transfer coefficient (the inverse or opposite of thermal resistance) for fluid moving inside of a radiator is a function of the following:

k * Pr^0.33 / v^0.8

where
k = thermal conductivity of the fluid
Pr = the Prandtl number, which is the ratio of the kiematic viscosity of a fluid to its thermal diffusivity
v = kinematic viscosity of the fluid

Higher heat transfer coefficients = lower thermal resistance = better cooling

Here are the computed values of k * Pr^0.33 / v^0.8 for a few coolants:

kPrn (k * Pr^0.33 ) / n^0.8
Water0.6056.599.79E-07 72,337
30% EG0.48416.62.09E-06 42,792
50% EG0.42629.93.66E-06 29,214
EG0.252041.91E-05 8,616

EG = ethylene glycol. This is the stuff sometimes referred to as antifreeze and commonly used in a 50% blend with water as engine coolant.

As you can see, the number for water is much higher than for the EG or EG blends. There are similar results for propylene glycol.

As far as additives, I believe that the impact of small amounts of PT Nuke have an insignificant impact upon heat transfer.

Hope this explanation helps.
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post #14 of 22
Ahhh. The spaces within the table dissappeared. Here is the summary results:

Water = 72,337
30% EG = 42,792
50% EG = 29,214
EG = 8,616
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post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misterstrategy;13635473 
Ahhh. The spaces within the table dissappeared. Here is the summary results:

Water = 72,337
30% EG = 42,792
50% EG = 29,214
EG = 8,616

Thanks for the data. So from what I have gleamed, on the performance side we have distiller water, and on the longevity/maintenance side we have mixed coolant. Less corrosion and less pressure in a loop with coolant. I can see why manufactures would promote coolant if it's perceived to make their products last longer. On the other hand if your like many here who upgrade water blocks every year and a half, you would be focused on performance and not too worried what it will look like a couple of years down the road.
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post #16 of 22
CesarNYC - exactly what you said. There are threads everywhere, but ask yourself this: would you run your car without the proper anti-freeze?

There's no doubting that for absolute best performance, you should go with straight distilled plus some sort of a biocide. As far as a silver coil is concerned, I'm pretty sure you want something that affects the water of your entire loop. So unless you shove in 3 or for coils at strategic locations (which probably hampers flow as much as any coolant would if not more) then you're going to need to keep an eye on your loop.

The best advice in my opinion: use the pre-mixed coolant, but dilute it down a little further than it comes in the bottle so you have an even larger ratio of distilled to coolant.

From all the pics I see posted of guys with copper oxidization on their less than 1 year old blocks who "just happen to be" running distilled+ptnuke or a silver coil... it's not much of a surprise. I'm quite sure with some excess air trapped and running through your copper blocks etc. or any stray currents present in the loop it's better to be safe than sorry.

Just my opinion; but it makes 100% sense: better safe than sorry, and the level of heat we're throwing into these loops... even if straight distilled does "3 degrees better" ... who cares? Better to lose a degree or two and a bit of flow rate for blocks that will last longer. Just dilute the pre-mixes (HydrX by A LOT) and you're good to go.
post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by chorner;13636590 
As far as a silver coil is concerned, I'm pretty sure you want something that affects the water of your entire loop. So unless you shove in 3 or for coils at strategic locations (which probably hampers flow as much as any coolant would if not more) then you're going to need to keep an eye on your loop.

Nope, a single silver coil placed in the res will be enough to stop any bacterial or algal growth. So long as it is in contact with the liquid, and in a position where all the liquid passes by it at some point (i.e. not stuffed up a t-line) it will work. Silver has been used as an antimicrobial agent for many years, and it works well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chorner;13636590 
From all the pics I see posted of guys with copper oxidization on their less than 1 year old blocks who "just happen to be" running distilled+ptnuke or a silver coil... it's not much of a surprise.

If they have copper oxidation after a year then they are doing it wrong. Check this out:

distilledptnuke1.jpg

This comes from MartinM210, a respected member of many forums and something of a WC guru.

Put simply, if you don't mix aluminum in your loop, rinse your components properly before assembly and use straight water there should be no corrosion issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chorner;13636590 
even if straight distilled does "3 degrees better" ... who cares?

Any idea how much some people on here will do for "just" 3°C? Incidentally you don't gain or loose that much by running a premix (except for XP Nano). Skinnee did a test on various coolants and found very little performance difference between them:

SL-Coolant_chart-gpuavg.png

Between the best and the (second) worst there is 0.7°C, which is pretty insignificant (and possibly within the error margin).

So the only significant difference then is longevity. Will a premix last longer than distilled + biocide? This would be a difficult one to answer conclusively, due to there being a lot of variances between peoples' components, operating conditions and assembly skills (rinsing rads being the biggest problem).

I would say however that distilled + biocide is more likely to last longer than most premixes, purely on the basis that there is nothing to go wrong with it: No dyes to settle out, no surfactants to gum up and no fancy nanobots to take over the world.

Just some personal experience to go with this, here is a pic of my old Zalman ZM-WB5 block after using it with the Zalman coolant for roughly 3 months:

attachment.php?attachmentid=212384&stc=1&d=1306368981

Now here is my rig running distilled + killcoil after currently 4 months since the last refill:

attachment.php?attachmentid=212385&stc=1&d=1306368981

It was last drained to be shipped from the UK to Canada, before that it had done ~5 months on one fill, looked the same as it does now.

Note the clean water. That GPU block is over 1 year old and still shiny inside too. I just tried to take a picture of it but it is very difficult to get a shot in focus; the bottom rad makes it very tight to get a camera in there.
Edited by GingerJohn - 5/25/11 at 5:34pm
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post #18 of 22
very well done John +
    
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post #19 of 22
Well done John ... +1 from me as well. I very well could be wrong in my thinking; though the additives I use don't use a dye as far as I'm aware (either a clear base additive, or I've used the acid green stuff and so far after months of use, and pulling the loop apart to check not an issue at all and nice and shiny).

I agree with what you're saying about not having any dye in there to gunk up your blocks. Very good point.

To me, you can't really go wrong either way - I just like the 'security', and would rather not have a stray piece of silver sitting in my loop. I've seen others on other forums recommending you need multiple silver coils in a loop - so the clash of info is huge. It's no wonder these threads pop up all the time!

I really wonder what these people with oxidisation or corrosion on their blocks are doing differently, if anything. I'd love to know. I've been trying to find the answer everywhere I go, and can only see a pattern: ptnuke+distilled(and/or maybe a silver coil) seem to from the threads I have seen have most of the issue with corrosion. So that, coupled with me not having any build up in my loop at all of gunk or otherwise... having used additive makes me want to stick with it.
post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyRoyal;13628979 
Alright, once and for all I want to hear people's opinions of premixed coolants (such as Feser One products). I have a fear of corrosion, so I want to put in a coolant that stops (or slows) it. I've heard everything from "they are the greatest thing you can do for your system" to "they are worse than putting mayonnaise in your loop." I want all opinions, but opinions based on science or fact would be nice.

Well, ethylene glycol engine coolant when mixed into water is a corrosion inhibitant. This is one of the reasons Im gonna run a mix of it and water

EDIT: DISTILLED water. Sorry about the confusion haha
Edited by pyro_dude - 5/25/11 at 8:14pm
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