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post #131 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyujmn View Post
That may be the case, but who's to say he wasn't talking to a higher level engineer? The fact is, Intel states that 1.5v is safe. Unless you believe that you are smarter than Intel's engineers, I'd accept that voltage as the "max safe limit."

I'd personally never run it that high, but Intel states that it's safe.

And yes, Intel and AMD both state their max recommended voltages. For AMD's 45nm chips, it's usually 1.55v. They know their chips are being overclocked, and they actually encourage it. Why else would AMD have Black Editions, and Intel have the K versions with unlocked multipliers? Surely not to overclock?!
No i dont think im smarter then intel.

I realise that all i'm about to say contradicts my previous statement about overclocking not being supported... its late.

Intel has a new system to make overclocking easier, where everything is set to auto and the CPU "selects" a voltage from the "VID Table" (side note: im begining to believe VID stands for Voltage Identifier), based upon what multiplier is chosen, each VID Table is individually programmed for each CPU, Vdroop is as "Wumpus" stated, when the Amperage increases, the safe voltage is reduced, so the CPU needs to reduce the voltage to stay within safe limits.

While 1.52v might be safe at idle, it is most likely not safe under heavy load at higher frequencies (increased amperage) so it droops to 1.4v.

This is all speculation on my part [based on many hours of research i have done into overclocking sandybridge] as i have no firsthand knowledge.

Xroo, a suggestion for the degredation test, perhaps we could test the advice given via webchat:

Constants:

~ lowest stable Vcore at 4.5ghz as degradation basis
~ Both CPU's at 1.52v Vcore (or 1.5v to be within margin of error)
~ 5ghz Overclock
~ Identical cooling setups (preferably water)
~ Test benches to be identical (Mobo, and so forth)

Variables:

~ Run one CPU with 1.5v to the RAM modules, and the other at 1.65v

Conclusion:

Both CPU's degrade ~ advice given via webchat was inaccurate and that person should be shot... J/ks (no... really)
Only CPU with 1.65v RAM degrades ~ IMC has degraded

Cheers,

Ishi
Edited by Ishinomori - 6/1/11 at 12:36pm
post #132 of 171
(OC'ed Frequency / Stock Frequency ) * (OC'ed vCore / Stock vCore)² * Stock Watts = Watts when OC'ed

From Intel's datasheet we have that max VID is 1.52v and max ICC is 112A peak. By using the W = U * I formula we get the max peak wattage the processor can consume safely is 170W.

Now if we get an overclock to 5200MHz and 1.4v vCore, we have 197W. This is over the maximum peak wattage pull specified by Intel.

A little further down we find that the max sustained current is 85A, which means roughly 130W sustained.

From this we can conclude that doing prime all day at anything above 130W power draw can cause degradation and above 170W WILL cause degradation.
post #133 of 171
Thread Starter 
Great post!
However people has had their chips degraded at as low as 4.5Ghz and lower vcore's. So they can't really have passed the "safe limit" of how much wattage we can feed the CPU.

However, the system is running and doing all the updates for windows. Woha, even with 200Mbit/s download connection they take time.. It's kind of amusing having windows update notify me that there are only 78 new updates. And when they are done, there are additional/added 30 updates. And so on, before the sp1 update even shows up!

Couldn't they just let me click the sp1 update directly instead? Grr microsoft!

So, in short. The system is basically the hardware in my sig. Except minus the storage etc.

I will NOT run my good chip for a several hours doing prime. That would be a big waste of a really good chip. Except for the new one. 56x with PLL overvoltage, anything above gives me a cute "machine check error" at UEFI. ^_^ I suppose that's asrocks meaning for: Sorry no go!

I will begin to find an acceptable overclock, like 4.6 and then find the lowest possible vcore. That will be the overclock to re-check from time to time after hours and hours of prime/ibt/occt.

I'll begin with heat. 85C (or close to it) for 48 hours. Meaning, lowest possible vcore at 4.6GHz but removing a fan or two, or go from 2 rads to 1.

Updates (new thread perhaphs?) as soon as it's rollin
Eh also, what kind of pics do you actually want to see? Of the build or just screenshots? lol Anyway see ya soon

P.s. Why are people STILL complaining about me being an idiot for "killing" a CPU? What does it matter to you? It's not like I took the money from YOUR wallet, and I haven't stolen your CPU either, so what gives you the rights to complain? Yeah I forgot, the internet.. aaah!


Quote:
Originally Posted by nolonger View Post
(OC'ed Frequency / Stock Frequency ) * (OC'ed vCore / Stock vCore)² * Stock Watts = Watts when OC'ed

From Intel's datasheet we have that max VID is 1.52v and max ICC is 112A peak. By using the W = U * I formula we get the max peak wattage the processor can consume safely is 170W.

Now if we get an overclock to 5200MHz and 1.4v vCore, we have 197W. This is over the maximum peak wattage pull specified by Intel.

A little further down we find that the max sustained current is 85A, which means roughly 130W sustained.

From this we can conclude that doing prime all day at anything above 130W power draw can cause degradation and above 170W WILL cause degradation.
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post #134 of 171
People are jealous.

The post by Wumpus or what ever his name is interesting. I never knew that. The equation will have to be looked into and maybe even ask Intel.

For the updates, go to microsoft.com and download the SP1 there. It's a .exe and it will install normally and skip half the updates... I learned that yesterday when formating.
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post #135 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by XrOo View Post
Great post!
However people has had their chips degraded at as low as 4.5Ghz and lower vcore's. So they can't really have passed the "safe limit" of how much wattage we can feed the CPU.
4500MHz at 1.3V (0.1V above stock vCore) is already above the max rated sustained load specced by Intel. Comes out to about 147W.
Edited by nolonger - 6/1/11 at 2:22pm
post #136 of 171
I assume either IBT or LinX with the AVX extensions will be solid.
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post #137 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolonger View Post
4500MHz at 1.3V (0.1V above stock vCore) is already above the max rated sustained load specced by Intel. Comes out to about 147W.
Sorry. Me counting wrong. Lol you're right.
If ppl are suppose to stay "safe" there is almost no OC room at all :S
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post #138 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by XrOo View Post
Sorry. Me counting wrong. Lol you're right.
If ppl are suppose to stay "safe" there is almost no OC room at all :S
That's exactly what I'm thinking..but why would they have made the K series (unlocked processors for overclocking)
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post #139 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishinomori View Post
I honestly think the ceiling for "safe" is 1.4v like you've said (1.52VID with LLC disabled)

I've got my 2500k running 4.5ghz @ 1.212v for my 12hr sandy stable club submission, I'm just hoping my Realtemp doesn't close itself again, lost the timer on it, anyone know why this might be happening?
Probably unstable. I once had prime just close completely at 1.392v @ 5 ghz, after a 3 hour run...it just vanished without an error....

Either raise your vcore up a notch or raise your PLL voltage to 1.86v.
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post #140 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolonger View Post
(OC'ed Frequency / Stock Frequency ) * (OC'ed vCore / Stock vCore)² * Stock Watts = Watts when OC'ed

From Intel's datasheet we have that max VID is 1.52v and max ICC is 112A peak. By using the W = U * I formula we get the max peak wattage the processor can consume safely is 170W.

Now if we get an overclock to 5200MHz and 1.4v vCore, we have 197W. This is over the maximum peak wattage pull specified by Intel.

A little further down we find that the max sustained current is 85A, which means roughly 130W sustained.

From this we can conclude that doing prime all day at anything above 130W power draw can cause degradation and above 170W WILL cause degradation.
This is interesting. But I've had 0.030v of degradation by staying far UNDER that 130w ceiling. With multiple prime runs at 1.404v load and 5 ghz, my wattage never exceeded 119W. Yet the chip still degraded to the point where it needs 1.440v load now and that also affected the 4.5 ghz overclock as well, making it need 1.26v instead of 1.236v.

BTW I primed at 5 ghz, 1.5v LOAD (on the other 2600k), and the wattage was still below 130W in prime. So I'm very sure there's more than just that at work.

BTW guys, I think people are taking this out of context.
Having a 1.52v VID assumes (quite obviously) that you are NOT using LLC. You use LLC + 1.52v you're going completely outside specifications. However, keeping the VID at or under 1.52v (~1.40VCC at max load) does NOT guarantee that your chip will not degrade slightly, as some people have had to bump their voltages slightly when they were as low as 1.25v or 1.3v after a couple of weeks!

Likewise, SOME People who have been above 1.4v loaded have NOT had to bump their voltages at all.

Not all chips will perform identically, and likewise, not all boards are identical, either.

But if you DO exceed the electrical specifications, it does INCREASE the chances that not only will you have to bump voltages, you may have to bump them more, and possibly more often, because they stop needing vcore increses. It also increases the chances that you will see degradation within HOURS, instead of days/weeks, as the person who was just benching (not even running prime at 1.6v had.....(he had to bump voltage by 0.015v after just two hours of benching).
Edited by Falkentyne - 6/1/11 at 3:07pm
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