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post #41 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCCstudent View Post
Are you after the services of a UPS (which provides the ability to correctly shut down the PC in the event of a power failure) of the services of a surge protector? Average run of the mill surge protectors will provide protection against data corruption caused by man made imperfections in the supplied power but they will not protect against a full on lighting strike.
I don't see how you can protect against data corruption / loss without providing for a clean shutdown. That's why enterprise raid systems have their own on-board battery backups. They don't even trust the UPS to get the job done (someone could trip on the power cord, or the system could power down due to a short). Also, it sounds like you're talking about a power conditioner, not a surge protector. Surge protectors do nothing to protect you from brief interruptions, sags, or spikes below their clamping voltage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by systemlayers View Post
The whole knot thing smells of BS Spoony. Just googled the method as well. I'm not sure how or why you think it's a method that's recommendable but i'm pretty damn sure it isn't.
The knot thing is crap. As someone who works with RF, a few knots in a cord does not equal either a filter, choke, or provide the benefits of twisted pair.

If lightning protection was that simple, why doesn't the inside of my 5U APC unit have any knots on the AC input line? Surely that $150,000 guarantee would push them towards any amazingly inexpensive first line of defense, instead of costly metal oxide varistors, or the simple yet effective gas blocks used on phone systems everywhere?
 
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post #42 of 75
Thread Starter 
From what i've read (Curt Palme on avsforums and others) power conditioners are mostly just crap.
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post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
Three knots in the psu cable is a cheap way for good surge protection it melts the knots cutting the circuit off saving your equipment most of the time.
That's a myth.
post #44 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post
I don't see how you can protect against data corruption / loss without providing for a clean shutdown. That's why enterprise raid systems have their own on-board battery backups. They don't even trust the UPS to get the job done (someone could trip on the power cord, or the system could power down due to a short). Also, it sounds like you're talking about a power conditioner, not a surge protector. Surge protectors do nothing to protect you from brief interruptions, sags, or spikes below their clamping voltage.


The knot thing is crap. As someone who works with RF, a few knots in a cord does not equal either a filter, choke, or provide the benefits of twisted pair.

If lightning protection was that simple, why doesn't the inside of my 5U APC unit have any knots on the AC input line? Surely that $150,000 guarantee would push them towards any amazingly inexpensive first line of defense, instead of costly metal oxide varistors, or the simple yet effective gas blocks used on phone systems everywhere?
I said for extra surge protection. A person must be pretty stupid to only rely on that as surge protection. The use that for extra surge protection and ferrite beads.
The knot counters the magnetic field produced by electrical currents. Common sense
Edited by Spooony - 5/27/11 at 2:38pm
post #45 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
I said for extra surge protection. A person must be pretty stupid to only rely on that as surge protection. The use that for extra surge protection and ferrite beads.
The knot counters the magnetic field produced by electrical currents. Common sense
The knot isn't going to do anything but weaken the copper. If you strip the insulation off of the outside of an extension cord or computer power cord, you will find that the wires are spiraled, in a very similar manner to (albeit not as tight) category cabling. That alone would defeat any exterior knotting.

As for ferrite cores, they are ONLY useful in filtering out high frequency EMF, just as powdered iron transformers are useful for high frequency AC (they saturate too quickly for 50/60Hz use).

If you want something that will actually do something, have one of these installed in your main panel:
http://www.apelectric.com/Square-D-Q...p/qo2175sb.htm

That will clamp down any voltage (referenced to ground) that exceeds 175V.
 
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post #46 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post
The knot isn't going to do anything but weaken the copper. If you strip the insulation off of the outside of an extension cord or computer power cord, you will find that the wires are spiraled, in a very similar manner to (albeit not as tight) category cabling. That alone would defeat any exterior knotting.

As for ferrite cores, they are ONLY useful in filtering out high frequency EMF, just as powdered iron transformers are useful for high frequency AC (they saturate too quickly for 50/60Hz use).

If you want something that will actually do something, have one of these installed in your main panel:
http://www.apelectric.com/Square-D-Q...p/qo2175sb.htm

That will clamp down any voltage (referenced to ground) that exceeds 175V.
lol think of the knot as a coil with a couple of turns. The surge impedance of any line is the square root of its inductance divided by its capacitance, and electromagnetic waves travel most readily down a line where that surge impedance doesn't change. A point of changing impedance is a discontinuity that causes a partial reflection of the wave back towards its source. That means two surge impedance discontinuities from line to knot, and from knot back to line. Weaken copper lmoa

Btw any device is useless without a proper ground.
Edited by Spooony - 5/27/11 at 4:30pm
post #47 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
lol think of the knot as a coil with a couple of turns. The surge impedance of any line is the square root of its inductance divided by its capacitance, and electromagnetic waves travel most readily down a line where that surge impedance doesn't change. A point of changing impedance is a discontinuity that causes a partial reflection of the wave back towards its source. That means two surge impedance discontinuities from line to knot, and from knot back to line. Weaken copper lmoa

Btw any device is useless without a proper ground.
I get the principle, but I just don't see it making anything but a barely measurable difference, much less any useful difference.

Do you have a source of this being proven?
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post #48 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post
I get the principle, but I just don't see it making anything but a barely measurable difference, much less any useful difference.

Do you have a source of this being proven?
remember is said for extra protection. If you don't have any its better than nothing. Im not saying its as good as a surge protector I'm saying FOR EXTRA PROTECTION
http://www.telos-systems.com/techtalk/surge.pdf

for example the difference it can make is wee bit small. Instead of your pc exploding it will just be scorched.................

And another mistake people make is plugging in ups devices into powerstrips putting them in series BIG MISTAKE
Edited by Spooony - 5/27/11 at 4:57pm
post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
remember is said for extra protection. If you don't have any its better than nothing. Im not saying its as good as a surge protector I'm saying FOR EXTRA PROTECTION
http://www.telos-systems.com/techtalk/surge.pdf

for example the difference it can make is wee bit small. Instead of your pc exploding it will just be scorched.................

And another mistake people make is plugging in ups devices into powerstrips putting them in series BIG MISTAKE
I'm pretty much saying I don't see it being better than nothing. But I have nothing to refute it, so .
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post #50 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post
I'm pretty much saying I don't see it being better than nothing. But I have nothing to refute it, so .
have you ever experience a lightning strike before? It will rip through any surge protector in its path. 3 knots might just save your life one day. Remember NEC standards are to protect and for human safety and not for the stuff they own
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