Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Operating Systems › Linux, Unix › How OLD? No Problem!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

How OLD? No Problem! - Page 3

post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post
That's a very good point - i've totalled an Ubuntu install by removing a package that also removed a big dependency (I think it was X or something)

That said, under Slack, how would KDE fair if you removed Qt? Or GNOME if you GTK?
Greetz
Now we're getting to the heart of the matter. It should be obvious even to the pre-noobescent that if one uninstalls a kernel and doesn't replace it, the system is borked until you do. However, unlike windows, since everything else remains untouched (and in this case that includes most distros but above all, Slackware) all one has to do is replace the kernel and Bam! it works again.

In the case you've mentioned, KDE certainly would not like that, again, until you replaced it, but the system would still boot to CLI in Slackware where it would be simple to replace and be back in black. Also, in Slackware, KDE is not one huge package but many, so no wholesale slaughter can ever take place unless intended for some perverse reason.

Incidentally because Slackware defaults to actually using many runlevels and booting to CLI, even if you aren't talking about uninstalling but real slaughter like deleting the entire "/usr/bin" AND the "/usr/sbin" directories it would still boot to a maintenance CLI at runlevel 1. In fact, in my noobier days, after a working install where I wanted to put "/usr" on a separate partition and failed to set it up right, so the entire "/usr? directory and all subs were non-existent, it STILL booted. Properly identifying the partition in "/etc/fstab" put it all back in order.

So as I said in a single sentence, Slackware's philosophy is the system is sacrosanct and way more important than any single or program or batch of programs, and certainly more important than mere convenience. However that does NOT make it inconvenient. It's easy to install and uninstall stuff and configure and it is convenient to have the system always just work. If a bad choice or missing package makes a dependency problem, as soon as you fix that simple thing, instead of all the wholesale carnage that went on hidden from you in auto-resolve, that app works. To me that is ultimate convenience.
NewMain
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 - 3550 Asrock Z77 Extreme4 Evga GTX 1070Ti  4x2GB Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate SATA 2TB x 2  Plextor PX-891SAW CM-Hyper N520 Slackware 14.2 MultiLib, Slackware 14.0 32 bit,... 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
32" Vizio HDTV + DLP Logitech Wireless Corsair HX-850 Antec Sonata I 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Razer DeathAdder 2013 dual ESI Juli@ CoolGear ExtSata Enclosure w/ Optical and 3TB S... 
  hide details  
Reply
NewMain
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 - 3550 Asrock Z77 Extreme4 Evga GTX 1070Ti  4x2GB Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate SATA 2TB x 2  Plextor PX-891SAW CM-Hyper N520 Slackware 14.2 MultiLib, Slackware 14.0 32 bit,... 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
32" Vizio HDTV + DLP Logitech Wireless Corsair HX-850 Antec Sonata I 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Razer DeathAdder 2013 dual ESI Juli@ CoolGear ExtSata Enclosure w/ Optical and 3TB S... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #22 of 24
Hmm, that is true I guess, it's just that auto-resolution will probably go through the same steps you would manually in Slack (just quicker). Ok, when installing, it might install optional dependencies by default (adding to bloat), and when removing it might remove something it shouldn't, but my point is that an uninformed user could do the same in Slack. Likewise, an Ubuntu user (just to pick a distro) could manually remove the correct dependencies before remove the target package (and I wouldn't put it past the system to be able to modify a config/DB file to change the dependency list so apt-get would work right)

In the end of the day, it comes down to how knowledgable the user is. A knowledgable user won't let apt-get trash Ubuntu, but is happy with the time-saving/ease-of-use of auto-resolution. It's down to laziness of knowledgable users, and the "blind faith" of the uninformed. Which is why, Ubuntu is for the mainstream, and Slack is for the geeks. I guess it's up to the geeks using Ubuntu to keep a close eye on apt-get bugs, to keep the mainstream from running off scared
Little Beast
(12 items)
 
Black 'n' blue II
(15 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i7-4710MQ Nvidia Geforce GTX860M 2GB 16GB Kingston DDR3 1600MHz 240Gb Silicon Power S55/S60 SSD 
Hard DriveOSOSMonitor
1Tb Toshiba HDD 5400rpm Windows 8.1 Linux Mint 18 17.3" LED 1920x1080 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
PCSpecialist Optimus V ST17-860 Logitech MX518 Steelseries QcK Creative HS800 Fatal1ty 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 860 @ 1.25V MSI P55-GD65 Xpertvision Radeon HD4850 4GB G.Skill Ripjaw 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
150Gb Velociraptor & 1Tb WD Caviar Black Opticon Lightscribe DVD-RW DL Noctua NH-U12P SE2 Vista Home Premium x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Hyundai BlueH H224W 22" LCD Saitek Eclipse II Thermaltake Purepower RX 550 Galaxy III 
Mouse
Patuoxun optical gaming mouse 3200dpi 
  hide details  
Reply
Little Beast
(12 items)
 
Black 'n' blue II
(15 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i7-4710MQ Nvidia Geforce GTX860M 2GB 16GB Kingston DDR3 1600MHz 240Gb Silicon Power S55/S60 SSD 
Hard DriveOSOSMonitor
1Tb Toshiba HDD 5400rpm Windows 8.1 Linux Mint 18 17.3" LED 1920x1080 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
PCSpecialist Optimus V ST17-860 Logitech MX518 Steelseries QcK Creative HS800 Fatal1ty 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 860 @ 1.25V MSI P55-GD65 Xpertvision Radeon HD4850 4GB G.Skill Ripjaw 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
150Gb Velociraptor & 1Tb WD Caviar Black Opticon Lightscribe DVD-RW DL Noctua NH-U12P SE2 Vista Home Premium x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Hyundai BlueH H224W 22" LCD Saitek Eclipse II Thermaltake Purepower RX 550 Galaxy III 
Mouse
Patuoxun optical gaming mouse 3200dpi 
  hide details  
Reply
post #23 of 24
An uninformed user shouldn't be running Slack If you don't understand the difference between a mandatory and an optional dependency, stick with automatic resolution. Better yet: start reading and work it out.

The thing is that automatic dependency resolution often installs or uninstalls potentially mandatory dependencies. For example, you apparently need Nepomuk and Akonadi for KDE, if you believe most package managers. In fact KDE works fine without it, you just won't get the benefit of certain features.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 D0 MSI X58 Pro-E Gigabyte GTX 970 (GV-N970IX-4GD) 3x2GB G.Skill DDR3-1333 9-9-9-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
840 Pro Caviar Black LG BD-ROM Windows 8.1 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2713HM Dell U2311H Turbo-Trak (Google it :D) Corsair HX-520 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM690 Mionix Avior 7000 Everglide Titan AKG K 242 HD 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 D0 MSI X58 Pro-E Gigabyte GTX 970 (GV-N970IX-4GD) 3x2GB G.Skill DDR3-1333 9-9-9-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
840 Pro Caviar Black LG BD-ROM Windows 8.1 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2713HM Dell U2311H Turbo-Trak (Google it :D) Corsair HX-520 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM690 Mionix Avior 7000 Everglide Titan AKG K 242 HD 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomizer View Post
An uninformed user shouldn't be running Slack If you don't understand the difference between a mandatory and an optional dependency, stick with automatic resolution. Better yet: start reading and work it out.

The thing is that automatic dependency resolution often installs or uninstalls potentially mandatory dependencies. For example, you apparently need Nepomuk and Akonadi for KDE, if you believe most package managers. In fact KDE works fine without it, you just won't get the benefit of certain features.
Exactly - you'll end up with a more bloated system, but it'll "just work" in all it's glory. The same end could be achieved with Slack, it'll just take longer.
Little Beast
(12 items)
 
Black 'n' blue II
(15 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i7-4710MQ Nvidia Geforce GTX860M 2GB 16GB Kingston DDR3 1600MHz 240Gb Silicon Power S55/S60 SSD 
Hard DriveOSOSMonitor
1Tb Toshiba HDD 5400rpm Windows 8.1 Linux Mint 18 17.3" LED 1920x1080 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
PCSpecialist Optimus V ST17-860 Logitech MX518 Steelseries QcK Creative HS800 Fatal1ty 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 860 @ 1.25V MSI P55-GD65 Xpertvision Radeon HD4850 4GB G.Skill Ripjaw 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
150Gb Velociraptor & 1Tb WD Caviar Black Opticon Lightscribe DVD-RW DL Noctua NH-U12P SE2 Vista Home Premium x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Hyundai BlueH H224W 22" LCD Saitek Eclipse II Thermaltake Purepower RX 550 Galaxy III 
Mouse
Patuoxun optical gaming mouse 3200dpi 
  hide details  
Reply
Little Beast
(12 items)
 
Black 'n' blue II
(15 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i7-4710MQ Nvidia Geforce GTX860M 2GB 16GB Kingston DDR3 1600MHz 240Gb Silicon Power S55/S60 SSD 
Hard DriveOSOSMonitor
1Tb Toshiba HDD 5400rpm Windows 8.1 Linux Mint 18 17.3" LED 1920x1080 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
PCSpecialist Optimus V ST17-860 Logitech MX518 Steelseries QcK Creative HS800 Fatal1ty 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 860 @ 1.25V MSI P55-GD65 Xpertvision Radeon HD4850 4GB G.Skill Ripjaw 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
150Gb Velociraptor & 1Tb WD Caviar Black Opticon Lightscribe DVD-RW DL Noctua NH-U12P SE2 Vista Home Premium x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Hyundai BlueH H224W 22" LCD Saitek Eclipse II Thermaltake Purepower RX 550 Galaxy III 
Mouse
Patuoxun optical gaming mouse 3200dpi 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Linux, Unix
Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Operating Systems › Linux, Unix › How OLD? No Problem!