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45 nm vs 32 nm - Page 2

post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthraxinsoup;13660811 
No, not most of the time. Now sometimes they will, but not generally. 3d trans in the 22nm Ivy bridge is going to change the method though.



3d transistor wont mean they need less voltage .... its the method that intel implemented that we dont know much about that will help ...


insulator choice ... or other stuff that is relevant in the semiconductor industry ... and since i dont know too much about that i wont go into detail ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ipwnnubletz;13660847 
32nm will always be faster than 45nm, theoretically. Light takes a set amount of seconds to travel a distance of 45nm. It'll take light 71.1% the time it took to travel 32nm as compared to 45nm, so the smaller the nanometers, the faster the computations will be.

This isn't counting architecture though.


light???



Quote:
Originally Posted by grishkathefool;13661375 
Light? These aren't fiber optics. Electrons transfer through a medium nearly instantaneously despite distances small or vast because, unlike light, they don't actually travel. They simply cause their neighbors to get excited and pass on the urge, so to speak.

More transistors.


dunno why but what you said doesnt make sense


please explain the part about the electrons staying in place and not moving ....
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post #12 of 25
Okay, I oversimplified things. Here is a quote from a physics professor:
Quote:
The electrons do flow through the wires, but they never leave the wires.
This is why you need something called a complete circuit. The power plant
pushes electrons through the wire. Electrons do not like to be near
electrons because they have the same electric charge. The electrons that
were moved forward in the wires then cause more electrons to move. This
continues around the circuit. Also, electrons from behind tend to be
attracted by the metal atoms that are now missing an electron. They fall in
behind to replace the first electrons.

After a very short time, the electrons throughout the circuit fall into a
regular pattern. Energy goes from the power plant to the moving electrons.
Energy goes from the moving electrons to the devices, such as the light
bulbs and televisions of the area. More energy is given to the electrons.
More energy is transferred to the lights and TVs. All the loose electrons
move at the same time, almost like water flowing around in a circular tube.
The power plant tries to speed up the electrons. Electric devices try to
slow them down. They quickly reach a balance. You never need to replace
electrons because they always come back.

This is why you need two prongs on a plug for it to work. Electrons go in
one and out the other. Passing through the device is what allows energy to
be transferred.

Dr. Ken Mellendorf
Physics Instructor
Illinois Central College

What I mean is this: When you energize a circuit you get immediate and nearly instantaneous results because the instant the first electron moves, the last one in line moves too. Compare this to the movement of light, where a packet of photons must actually travel the whole distance.

When talking about minute distances, it doesn't matter at all, really. So, once again, I am talking just to hear myself.
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post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by grishkathefool;13661375 
Light? These aren't fiber optics. Electrons transfer through a medium nearly instantaneously despite distances small or vast because, unlike light, they don't actually travel. They simply cause their neighbors to get excited and pass on the urge, so to speak.

More transistors.

Wait, so, you're saying you found something that goes faster than the speed of light ?
Oh boy OCN is getting better with the day.
Edited by Xenthos - 5/28/11 at 7:26am
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossie2000;13655145 
Should 32 nm be faster than 45 nm.I think so ye? So i figure out they we cannot put a phenom 2 agains a i7 in benches! With BD AMD is finnaly comming to the party with 32 nm.But now for the interisting part.How the hell did AMD get it right still to use socket 939/940 and intel have to go from 775 to 1366 and now 1156/55.(Not talking about the APU here.It will have a bigger socket because of the graphic interface)

Why do you have the old South African flag as your avatar?
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post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by grishkathefool;13665457 
Okay, I oversimplified things. Here is a quote from a physics professor:

What I mean is this: When you energize a circuit you get immediate and nearly instantaneous results because the instant the first electron moves, the last one in line moves too. Compare this to the movement of light, where a packet of photons must actually travel the whole distance.

When talking about minute distances, it doesn't matter at all, really. So, once again, I am talking just to hear myself.

Greetz
I definitely understand what you're trying to get at in that it is true that the electrons don't actually travel. Originally when transistors first were invented this was describes as "moving holes". Later it became understood that the effect is a passing down the line of a quantum state of energy which we experience as electricity. This is indeed very fast but by no means instantaneous.

In fact, in modern computers and although it was obviously in retrospect, very smart to dump multiple parallel lines in favor of serial interfaces at higher clock rates, the speed of light has already been a problem in both motherboard and processor design since if two lines are of sufficiently different length their phase is compromised in an area where timing in nanoseconds are crucial. This problem is a growing concern due to the huge leap in clock rates not only in processors but within subsystems.

So please get that straight - so far Einstein is not on the chopping block just yet.... nothing is faster than light excepting Jean Luc Picard wink.gif
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post #16 of 25
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Beautifull is't it!.Because the *******s you removed it thought it had something to do with apartheid which is not thru.The possitive side is you can use it for that ever you want now even wipe your assh!biggrin.gif
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post #17 of 25
Are you from RSA?
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post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossie2000;13665980 
Beautifull is't it!.Because the *******s you removed it thought it had something to do with apartheid which is not thru.The possitive side is you can use it for that ever you want now even wipe your assh!biggrin.gif

confused.gif
post #19 of 25
My understanding is that nothing moves faster than light, but that some interactions can take place nearly instantaneoulsy, quantum relationships, for instance.

What I was attempting to illustrate is that if you had a million mile wire with insignificant resistance and you applied a voltage to it, you would be able to measure that voltage before a photon emitted from point 0 could reach the end of the wire. The electron only has to travel as far as the next electron, whereas the photon has to travel the whole distance.

I would like to have my understanding clarified, though. I am not abject to learning, enorbet.
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post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by grishkathefool;13666673 
My understanding is that nothing moves faster than light, but that some interactions can take place nearly instantaneoulsy, quantum relationships, for instance.

What I was attempting to illustrate is that if you had a million mile wire with insignificant resistance and you applied a voltage to it, you would be able to measure that voltage before a photon emitted from point 0 could reach the end of the wire. The electron only has to travel as far as the next electron, whereas the photon has to travel the whole distance.

I would like to have my understanding clarified, though. I am not abject to learning, enorbet.

Nope this isn't correct. Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, the key aspect of this being that information cannot be transmitted faster than the speed of light. So, in the conduction example, if you applied a current at one end of a wire, if you instantaneously got a response at the other end it violates special relativity, as that 'information' has then traveled faster than light speed.

an electrical circuit can be described as having a 'near instantaneous' response due to the cascade effect you mentioned, but it's only convenient to treat it as instantaneous for humanity's practical uses. The time between switching on a light at the switch and the electrons in the bulb feeling this effect is more or less negligible in our frame of reference and what we can observe as humans. However, if you could watch this event in, say, a nanosecond frame of observation, it would take a very long time between the switch being thrown and any effect being noticed.

Within say, copper wire, the electrons only travel of the order 10^-4 m/s, which is obviously very slow indeed, but - as you said - the overall velocity of the 'energy' flow is very fast. However, it still takes time for each electron to move to its next position and pass this energy to the next electron (I'm describing a simplified view here), so the time taken for the energy to flow is most certainly non trivial.

Going back to my original statement, nothing can travel faster than light. This has to be clarified that no 'information' can travel faster than light, as - for example - some electromagnetic phase velocities are faster than light. However, due to various effects it means that it is impossible for any information to be sent, therefore special relativity is still observed.

As I'm sure you're aware, it's quite complicated, but to reduce it down, you can't transmit any information (this term can cover a whole host of things, only one of which is mass) faster than light.

I'm sorry if I haven't explained it very will above, but I hope you'll get the gist of what I'm trying to say!
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