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New Propus CPU Fails to Deliver, Yet Again. - Page 5

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryton View Post
His reference to watercooled MOSFETs is of course to keep those from burning up.
1.7v's through the power circuit to the CPU via the MOSFET's is alot of voltage and the MOSFETs will get warm or even hot.

As for doing it, you can find a cooling block for just that at Newegg, here's a link to one as an example:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835708022

NOW.... I'm wondering if the chip you have is indeed a "True" Phenom II chip or not. Many folks just don't realize these newer PHII and Athlon chips are temp sensitive.
Simply throwing the voltage way up can work against what you're trying to do as I've discovered with my 555 and 720 chips. Core temps can and will spike under load (Such as booting the OS) if you push it too hard. Watercooling, DICE or even better cooling can help to offset these spikes but as we all know there is a point of diminishing returns.
I've discovered with my 720BE as an example that it really doesn't like voltages much over 1.47v's on air and trying to go higher will result in higher temps AND a lower bootable clockspeed too.
On water it's much better but of course there's still a limit, about 1.57v's with some gains being made.

This same chip can and will bootup with as little as 1.44v's while going over 4.0 (4013MHz) at the same time too - Stable (So far).
Of course there are other factors that contribute to this and all of my settings have to be on target to do it.

What I'm getting at is maybe you're giving it too much voltage and you have a temp spike problem going on when trying to bootup, that will make it flake out everytime. Related to the above, I've seen my chips boot into the OS sometimes with a lower voltage than where it had been crashing before at the same speed settings indicating such a temp spiking problem.

Or maybe you just have a crappy chip.
true^
That's what I believe will happen..he wouldn't even be able to POST at 1.7v on air.The other thing to remember with Athlons is you OC the whole system,from the HTT,NB,RAM and CPU speeds plus the voltages for each of these.1 notch off and you get no POST.I feel like many never reach their chips potential because of this.
As for the VRM's and mobo-just booting will probably be ok.I dare say if he did manage to boot at 1.7v on air,if he tried to run a load it would shut down within seconds.
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post #42 of 58
I've no doubt the MOSFETs aren't very cool at those voltages.
All it would take is a component flaking out due to high enough temps and there it is - BSOD as a result but when it cools down a bit, it goes to working properly again (Sometimes).

One has to consider every component in the circuitry that feeds the CPU or whatever you can mention. Just like a chain, all it takes is the weakest link to fail and it's a no-go situation.
In fact circuitry itself is indeed like a chain, power has to go through one component to reach another, then onto the next, then the next..... to reach it's final destination but if it's dropped, blocked or even bottlenecked in anyway, this will have an effect of somekind, usually of the "Not -So-Good" kind.

As for the other things, higher multis always mean the CPU works harder per MHz = More heat generated. I've actually had better luck hitting 4.0 or better with a lower multi/more bus speed/correct RAM divider than trying to do it with raw multiplier alone. Some setups can do better than others no doubt but the higher multi always makes a chip work harder per MHz cycle.
Edited by Kryton - 5/29/11 at 6:48am
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post #43 of 58
My bro has an Athlon II x2 240 (regor?), I'm not sure how similar the architecture is, but it does 3.8GHz at 1.5VCore, it's also only a dual though.
    
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post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascii Aficionado View Post
I noticed some aftermarket cpu coolers have a side fan which could be put on the side and would be blowing directly on the VRM heatsinks on some motherboards, wondering if that would be a bad idea since the heat from the CPU's heatsink would be coming along for the ride.
My Hyper 212+ blows hot air straight at my mosfets, so if I try to run 3.7ghz at 1.358v they overheat and throttle down. After I installed a fan to blow at them, it no longer throttles.
Edited by Devilmaypoop - 5/29/11 at 6:53am
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post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by snelan View Post
My bro has an Athlon II x2 240 (regor?), I'm not sure how similar the architecture is, but it does 3.8GHz at 1.5VCore, it's also only a dual though.
It's an entirely different chip.
The 140/145 Semprons are based on the Regor core and those run very cool even with more voltage aplied vs other chips.
A lower wattage draw is what makes these chips run as cool as they do and they can do some decent clocks too, my 140 unlocked can go at least 3.8, no prob on air but it does need some voltage to get there, around 1.5v's or more to do it BUT temps still tend to stay rather cool, around the 40c mark or so.

If ambient temps are higher (around 75 degrees or more), of course that just kills it on air but I'm thinking my board has something to do with that too.
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post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilmaypoop View Post
My Hyper 212+ blows hot air straight at my mosfets, so if I try to run 3.7ghz at 1.358v they overheat and throttle down. After I installed a fan to blow at them, it no longer throttles.
That's exactly what I was thinking about, not only the side mounted CPU fan being able to double-up and blow on VRM heatsinks, but the possibility of if it would be beneficial as the heat would also come along for the ride, I originally thought of this because of that exact cooler and others just like it.
post #47 of 58
From my experience,it doesn't matter if it's an Athlon or a Phenom,if it's a C2 rev. you could get a crap overclocker.Same way with the C3 rev. like mine.Much better generally regardless if it is Regor,Rana or Phenom.The thing about 3&4 core Athlons is they are basically just lower-binned Denabs.A propus has 4 good cores,so in order to get binned as an Athlon it basically has to suck or have a bad L3 cache.The Regor/Sempron is it's own design,and the X3 Rana's can have 3 great cores and 1 bad one,like mine.Of course this not all proven,all the time,but seems to follow this general binning practice.
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post #48 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smash_mouth01 View Post
Worst happens you are thinking that you will be able to pump 1.7v through a 32nm CPU( on Air)....lol.
The thing that you'll be doing is paying another $300+ dollars to replace that BD, probably in all of 2 minutes.

Look mate it's evident that you have no realistic clue on how to overclock at all period. So go and do a bit of real research, it almost sounds like you got your information from 4chan.

Some of the finest overclockers are telling you to not do it, people that would have far.far.far.far more experience than me, and I have been overclocking for a while and you just brush it off as nonsense or as we don't know what we are talking about.
I'm sure you think you are smart, and everyone who wants to find out things for themselves are dumb. But, obviously, you need to work on your reading comprehension. Who said I'm going to OC a $300+ BD chip using 1.7Vcore? Who said I was buying a two $300+ BD chip? LOL. I can tell you are smart, cuz you can sure make stuff up out of the blue. And also, please don't call me mate. My girlfriend is my mate. Calling a guy you don't know your mate is pretty weird.

Here are the reasons I believe 1.7vcore test is achievable:

1. I ran a previous Propus chip at 1.6Vcore on a 4+1 Powerphase ASUS MOBO with no mosfet heatsinks and no side intake case fan.

2. My new mobo is a 8+2 powerphase w/heatsinks and a side intake case fan.

3. This is a 95W chip, guys. Running it at the same wattage as a 1.55vcore 125W Thuban.

It's hilarious how some people are going all crazy saying "your mobo is going to die!" "your chip is going to die!". My mobo is going to be fine (no water-cooled mosfets needed, LOL), and the chip cost $75. I stated that this is an experiment, and I would be running 1.7vcore for 2 hours max, not 24/7. So, if I was a betting man, I would bet my chip survives. I do kinda wish it will die so I can get a BD CPU
Edited by charlie310 - 5/29/11 at 10:31am
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post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie310 View Post

It's hilarious how some people are going all crazy saying "your mobo is going to die!" "your chip is going to die!". My mobo is going to be fine (no water-cooled mosfets needed, LOL), and the chip cost $75. I stated that this is an experiment, and I would be running 1.7vcore for 2 hours max, not 24/7. So, if I was a betting man, I would bet my chip survives. I do kinda wish it will die so I can get a BD CPU

I can't speak for the others but I did catch the doing it for gits and shiggles part in your opening post.

As for what I did post up, it was something to try so maybe you might get it past the 3.8 mark in reference to your chip not clocking up as you'd like it to. Not arguing the point either about what you've done before, that's history BUT this is something yet to be done, hence the experimenting reference you made.
In other words I get what you're trying and the reasons for it, I've been guilty of trying some crazy stuff before too just "To See" if it could be done and yes, I've lost a few pieces along the way doing it.

Nothing wrong with trying things out for testing, ect but as it's been stated, you've been warned so don't come back complaining about it. You know the risks and they are yours to take of course.

This site and it's members aren't in to passing out bad advice as a general rule - True you do have some that do just that but most of us that have posted haven't done that - Yet.

For my part, if I post something, it's to try and help, not to say "Go ahead, fry it, I don't care" even if you've stated that as an intention.

Not going to do that.

I'll also point out there is no guarantee your board will survive it either even if it has everything you've mentioned unless you're doing something there you haven't mentioned. The very best of hardware can and has been killed before and yours is no exception to that possibility. Of course it's yours to kill if you want - That's your call and $$ too.

I'll be watching to see if you can get it beyond 3.8 or not. As for the carnage that may follow if and when you try it, well that's something else.
Edited by Kryton - 5/29/11 at 10:54am
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post #50 of 58
Thread Starter 
Forgot to mention, ran an overnight P95 test, and the 3.85Ghz OC is unstable.
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