Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › P8P67Pro, Intel i5 2500K, reducing VCore?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

P8P67Pro, Intel i5 2500K, reducing VCore? - Page 4

post #31 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akehage;13683198 
My settings. I have done some changes with LLC, PLL, VCCIO, Cstates and VRM. And I have seen that thoose settings did make the VCore to be a little bit lower and no BSOD with that as I got before. So please check my settings and comment on those!



A question about System Agent Adapter, should the Initiate Graphic Adapter be at PEG/PCI?

It shouldn't matter.
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k 4.7GHz 1.34v Asus P8Z77-V Pro Gigabyte Windforce 7950 8GB Crucial 1866 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Crucial m4 128 GB Samsung BluRay Windows 7 64 Samsung S27A950D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Seasonic 760-X Corsair 800D Logitech G9 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k 4.7GHz 1.34v Asus P8Z77-V Pro Gigabyte Windforce 7950 8GB Crucial 1866 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Crucial m4 128 GB Samsung BluRay Windows 7 64 Samsung S27A950D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Seasonic 760-X Corsair 800D Logitech G9 
  hide details  
Reply
post #32 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave12;13675987 
1.52v comes from the Intel thermal specifications white paper. It is a valid voltage ceiling. Depending on what memory you have you may need to up the VCCIO to 1.15-1.20v to get things stable.

1.52 is not a voltage.
It's a VID.
NOT a voltage.

The voltage is applied after vdroop. The loadline chart which specifices the amount of vdroop is on the PDF.
SB Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte P67A-UD5 B3 R9 290X 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
Mouse Pad
Puretrak Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
SB Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte P67A-UD5 B3 R9 290X 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
Mouse Pad
Puretrak Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
post #33 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne;13693202 
1.52 is not a voltage.
It's a VID.
NOT a voltage.

The voltage is applied after vdroop. The loadline chart which specifices the amount of vdroop is on the PDF.

What in the hell are you talking about?

VID is the amount of v the chip asks for. LLC is extra voltage to account for drop in v under load. i7 SB VID's range from whatever (.9-1.375?) at stock speeds. Intel says maximum safe v is VID+positive offset+LLC<1.52.

Where am I confused here? thinking.gif
Edited by dave12 - 5/30/11 at 11:08pm
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k 4.7GHz 1.34v Asus P8Z77-V Pro Gigabyte Windforce 7950 8GB Crucial 1866 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Crucial m4 128 GB Samsung BluRay Windows 7 64 Samsung S27A950D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Seasonic 760-X Corsair 800D Logitech G9 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k 4.7GHz 1.34v Asus P8Z77-V Pro Gigabyte Windforce 7950 8GB Crucial 1866 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Crucial m4 128 GB Samsung BluRay Windows 7 64 Samsung S27A950D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Seasonic 760-X Corsair 800D Logitech G9 
  hide details  
Reply
post #34 of 86
Did you look at the documentation?

I said VID is NOT the same thing as vcore!
Vcore is the VID after loadline is applied to the voltage supply.

Unless you're using a MSI board (which has broken vdroop),
Set your BIOS to 1.52v, which is the max VID.
Set loadline calibration to STANDARD So it follows Intel's specification.
Then set your CPU under a medium or maximum load (e.g. IBT or Prime).

Then come back and tell me what your voltage is.
You will notice it is nowhere close to 1.52v. Use a FIXED voltage, NOT an offset!
1.52v fixed, in the BIOS, please. So you are forcing the CPU to a VID of 1.52v.
Then notice what happens during load.

That is how Intel designed the chips.
You DO understand that Loadline calibration (LLC) adjustments are NOT performing to Intel's specifications, right?

Please go look at the documentation. It's all there.

And for the Love of God, please do NOT include OFFSETS in the mix. Assume fixed voltages--that's how you see how VID and vdroop are supposed to work. Offsets are completely different and add unnecessary complications onto what I am trying to explain.

BTW, to continue, judging from what the charts are saying, a chip is specified to run at 1.52v supply voltage (vcore) if the current going into the chip/watts output by the chip is basically zero. So basically the CPU would have to be fully idle to run at 1.52v. As the CPU load increases, and the clock cycles start being used, the CPU must drop its supply voltage. In normal windows idle, this is about 1.475v. At load in a typical one threaded game, this may drop down to about 1.42v. In a heavily multithreaded program, this could be anywhere between 1.38v to 1.40v.

If you use loadline calibration to remove this vdroop, you are forcing the chip to run out of its thermal specifications. So if you are forcing it to run at 1.52v max LOAD voltage, you would need a supported VID of about 1.65v (I have tested this) to have a vcore of 1.52v at heavy load, after vdroop is applied, if you wanted this to be the "maximum vcore", while operating WITHIN Intel's vdroop specifications. And since the maximum VID is 1.52v and NOT 1.65v, well...simple logic wins the day here.

You can disagree with me all you want, and that's fine by me if you do. Your choice. But Intel created the chips, and I think they know more about the thermal specifications than you do. Sorry--I'd rather trust someone who made the cpu's than a random person on the internet.

I'm not trying to insult you. But if you want to prove that I'm wrong--and I'm open to it--please post a screenshot of the Loadline Slope, and explain how the CPU is supposed to run at 1.52v heavy load sustained voltage and have the loadline slope work without bending the rules of physics.
Edited by Falkentyne - 5/31/11 at 1:30am
SB Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte P67A-UD5 B3 R9 290X 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
Mouse Pad
Puretrak Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
SB Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte P67A-UD5 B3 R9 290X 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
Mouse Pad
Puretrak Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
post #35 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne;13696187 
Did you look at the documentation?

I said VID is NOT the same thing as vcore!
Vcore is the VID after loadline is applied to the voltage supply.

Unless you're using a MSI board (which has broken vdroop),
Set your BIOS to 1.52v, which is the max VID.
Set loadline calibration to STANDARD So it follows Intel's specification.
Then set your CPU under a medium or maximum load (e.g. IBT or Prime).

Then come back and tell me what your voltage is.
You will notice it is nowhere close to 1.52v. Use a FIXED voltage, NOT an offset!
1.52v fixed, in the BIOS, please. So you are forcing the CPU to a VID of 1.52v.
Then notice what happens during load.

That is how Intel designed the chips.
You DO understand that Loadline calibration (LLC) adjustments are NOT performing to Intel's specifications, right?

Please go look at the documentation. It's all there.

And for the Love of God, please do NOT include OFFSETS in the mix. Assume fixed voltages--that's how you see how VID and vdroop are supposed to work. Offsets are completely different and add unnecessary complications onto what I am trying to explain.

BTW, to continue, judging from what the charts are saying, a chip is specified to run at 1.52v supply voltage (vcore) if the current going into the chip/watts output by the chip is basically zero. So basically the CPU would have to be fully idle to run at 1.52v. As the CPU load increases, and the clock cycles start being used, the CPU must drop its supply voltage. In normal windows idle, this is about 1.475v. At load in a typical one threaded game, this may drop down to about 1.42v. In a heavily multithreaded program, this could be anywhere between 1.38v to 1.40v.

If you use loadline calibration to remove this vdroop, you are forcing the chip to run out of its thermal specifications. So if you are forcing it to run at 1.52v max LOAD voltage, you would need a supported VID of about 1.65v (I have tested this) to have a vcore of 1.52v at heavy load, after vdroop is applied, if you wanted this to be the "maximum vcore", while operating WITHIN Intel's vdroop specifications. And since the maximum VID is 1.52v and NOT 1.65v, well...simple logic wins the day here.

You can disagree with me all you want, and that's fine by me if you do. Your choice. But Intel created the chips, and I think they know more about the thermal specifications than you do. Sorry--I'd rather trust someone who made the cpu's than a random person on the internet.

I'm not trying to insult you. But if you want to prove that I'm wrong--and I'm open to it--please post a screenshot of the Loadline Slope, and explain how the CPU is supposed to run at 1.52v heavy load sustained voltage and have the loadline slope work without bending the rules of physics.

I'm not disagreeing. I asked a question. If you could post a link to an explanation of what you are try to say that would be great.

Your response does seem confrontational in a way that seems inappropriate to the general tenor of the present conversation, though. Perhaps you should make a thread with links and explanations. Maybe it gets stickied and maybe everyone learns something.
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k 4.7GHz 1.34v Asus P8Z77-V Pro Gigabyte Windforce 7950 8GB Crucial 1866 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Crucial m4 128 GB Samsung BluRay Windows 7 64 Samsung S27A950D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Seasonic 760-X Corsair 800D Logitech G9 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k 4.7GHz 1.34v Asus P8Z77-V Pro Gigabyte Windforce 7950 8GB Crucial 1866 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Crucial m4 128 GB Samsung BluRay Windows 7 64 Samsung S27A950D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Seasonic 760-X Corsair 800D Logitech G9 
  hide details  
Reply
post #36 of 86
Well I stayed up all night and day watching 1 litre of tears and I hate having to get screenshots from PDF files frown.gif It's like 3 times the work...and im massivly sleepy now....but sigh..ill go find a screenshot somehow.....
SB Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte P67A-UD5 B3 R9 290X 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
Mouse Pad
Puretrak Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
SB Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte P67A-UD5 B3 R9 290X 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
Mouse Pad
Puretrak Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
post #37 of 86
If you need 1.35v for 4.5, there is no way you could get away with 1.36v for 4.6.

Once you get to about 1.35/6 the amount of extra voltage you need for 100MHz increases exponentially.
post #38 of 86
Ok, this is going to look horrible but it's the best I can do. (I'm not exactly into the picture editing thing).

spec1i.jpg

spec2ta.jpg

spec3p.jpg
SB Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte P67A-UD5 B3 R9 290X 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
Mouse Pad
Puretrak Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
SB Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte P67A-UD5 B3 R9 290X 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
Mouse Pad
Puretrak Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
post #39 of 86
Ok the first thing to notice is note #2.
They clearly mention that the VID specification is different when you're using offsets and EIST/C1E (since you have to use offsets, as far as I know, to get EIST and C1E to downvolt the processor; if I'm wrong, please correct me on that). So you can't really talk about VID range the same way when you're using fixed voltages and the computer operating at normal vs downclocking. So to avoid confusing and for sanity's sake, we assume a fixed vcore/VID.

Now for the fun stuff.

We all know that "Loadline" is vdroop, simply because "loadline calibration" is the compensation for vdroop. And we see loadline stuff all over the charts. As I said, you need a degree in electrical engineering to understand this stuff. I have no idea what that ohm symbol is for or what that mv (millivolts?) is for, but that clearly has to do with the degree of loadline applied. I'm guessing it's porportional to the amount of amps being fed into the processor. But go to note #5: It says "VCC" (this is vcore) represents transient and static limits. Now you can see clearly that VCC and VID are not the same thinig at all. What I can make out clearly, however, is that the end voltage has to have loadline applied to it, so that 1.52v VID is going to become significantly lower for your actual VCC that is going to go into the processor itself. The motherboard is responsible for supplying these voltages and handling loadline. This is not done in the CPU itself. This is very important to know. That's also why loadline calibration works to varying degrees.

Now 6 I simply don't understand.

Note 4 I also don't understand.

All this EE stuff goes over my head. And m"Ohm" vs mV...completely over my head. And all that is talking about loadline...(vdroop)..who knows, maybe someone with some EE background can figure this out....


This is all I can do for now.
SB Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte P67A-UD5 B3 R9 290X 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
Mouse Pad
Puretrak Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
SB Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte P67A-UD5 B3 R9 290X 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 2 TB, WD 1 TB, 250gb Liteon ihbs212 blu-ray burner/reader XP+W7 Benq XL2720Z 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine 69/Year of the Goat/Shine 5 Seasonic Platinum X1000 Corsair 760T Logitech G502 with r0ach approved ™ sensor 
Mouse Pad
Puretrak Talent 
  hide details  
Reply
post #40 of 86
rolleyes.gif Dude you got a NH-D14. You should be able to push this chip to 1.385-1.391v no prob's. I only noticed about a 2 degrees extra from your voltage, and remember that in the real world, the computer is not going to get anywhere near the temp's prime95 is going to push out. Atleast start at 1.375 voltage and try and find a stable o.c from there. I found a stable o.c of 4.8ghz, 1.385v with normal o.c settings then my secret was then to push the blck up. This gives you that little extra juice and max your voltage out biggrin.gif
Edited by Neo_Morpheus - 5/31/11 at 5:46pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Intel CPUs
Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › P8P67Pro, Intel i5 2500K, reducing VCore?