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[Basic Guide] Intel Rapid Storage Technology - Page 3

post #21 of 31
Thread Starter 
Some people are probably going around quickly learning to see if they can prove me wrong. tongue.gif Right guys? biggrin.gif
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post #22 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridCore;13691400 
Some people are probably going around quickly learning to see if they can prove me wrong. tongue.gif Right guys? biggrin.gif

Yep...

I've not used Matrix RAID/Rapid Storage Tech for a while (since it was still Matrix in fact, as all my controllers are either unnecessary as I have hardware controllers or because I have cheap boards with ICH10s on them). So I'm a little rusty, but...

I'm not really sure what your guide is trying to show. With Matrix RAID you can put multiple different arrays on the same drives, which is something that isn't possible on many controllers (few hardware controllers can properly mix a RAID0 and a RAID5 on the same drives for example, but Matrix can do it). Also I'm not sure if I'm missing your point, but you can't do fault tolerant RAID0 on 2 drives - you need 4 to go to RAID10, which is possible on Matrix-RAID boards (and is superior to RAID0+1 too). It is not possible to use RAID1 with mechanical drives for a performance boost as you seem to suggest either.

Can you be a little clearer about what you're trying to show about Matrix RAID?
post #23 of 31
Thread Starter 
Sure. I'll make a picture. Just give me a minute. It won't be really good but I'm pretty sure you'll get the point.

Edit: Got Intel's diagram. Just need the other one now.

Edit: Updated.
Edited by HybridCore - 5/31/11 at 4:23am
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post #24 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridCore;13690661 
...snip...

What do you mean?
In RAID 0+1 or RAID 1+0 (also referred to as RAID 10), the two types or RAID work together to bring you better performance and fault tolerance (they both have different results. Check out Manyak's guide to RAID). However, Intel Rapid Storage Technology doesn't make the two work together. It splits the drive(s) into two parts, one for RAID x and one for RAID y. It allows you to store important data on the RAID array that has higher fault tolerance and unimportant data on the RAID array that has better performance.
...
I think the process should go something like this...
...
Where's the RAID 0?
You might be wondering where the RAID 0 is in my example of what I think it should be like. The RAID 0 occurs between the 2 discs. Since both drives hold all of the data, the fault tolerance is 1. No data is lost if one drive is damaged. As most of us know, RAID 0 works by using 2 or more separate discs to retrieve parts of the data. It takes twice as much (or more, depending on how many drives you use) time to get the complete file from one drive than two drives getting 2 different parts that make up the complete file. What happens here is that since both drives have part a and b. The first drive retrieves part and the second drive retrieves part b. That's where the RAID 0 comes in.

...

I understand the first bits of what you're saying, and I know how Matrix works. But it seems you aren't clear about what RAID10 (or RAID0+1) are, how they work and what the requirements are. And your listed 'cons' for Matrix aren't really cons of Matrix itself, but are actually down to physical limits on the technology (it's not physically possible to do a 'RAID0' with mechanical drives as you seem to indicate in your post, and have both performance and redundancy together).

Now I may be getting the wrong impression of what you're trying to say though, which is why I asked for extra info...

Edit:

Yep, just seen your new diagram in the OP. What you have shown is RAID1, and this can't be used as RAID0 and be expected to give the same speed boost. It just isn't physically possible with mechanical drives, which rely on the rotation of the platters in the drive and are limited by how long this takes.

With SSDs however you can get much closer to what you describe - and guess what... Matrix does it already, and does it pretty well. And it's likely that AMD, NVida, LSI, Areca, Adaptec, etc do so too. They are all just using RAID1, but will split the reads across different disks. With mechanical drives doing sequential transfers it doesn't actually help thoough...
Edited by the_beast - 5/31/11 at 4:32am
post #25 of 31
Thread Starter 
I linked Manyak's guide. Both RAID 10 and RAID 0+1 require at least 4 drives without Matrix. Wikipedia has a decent table on the types or RAID, functions, and minimum drives.
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post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridCore;13697029 
I linked Manyak's guide. Both RAID 10 and RAID 0+1 require at least 4 drives without Matrix. Wikipedia has a decent table on the types or RAID, functions, and minimum drives.

again, I know what the levels are, and what their requirements, pros and cons are. But you're asking Matrix to break the laws of physics, and calling it a con when it can't do it.

RAID10 (and RAID0+1) both require 4 drives, with or without Matrix. Matrix allows you to do RAID0 using half the space on 2 drives, and put a RAID1 on the remaining space on those same drives. But that isn't RAID10, nor is it meant to be.
post #27 of 31
Thread Starter 
Fixed. I replaced downfall with limits.
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post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridCore;13703799 
Fixed. I replaced downfall with limits.

I still think you're missing the point - it isn't anything to do with Matrix, or any other form of RAID. What you think should be done CANNOT be done. It's like saying a limitation of Sandybridge is that it cannot make coffee - it's just not possible.

I'm still not really clear what your guide is really trying to say - I applaud you for taking the time to do it, but it seems you don't really understand the concepts behind what you want to say, which makes the whole thing confusing.
post #29 of 31
Thread Starter 
I know it cannot do what I think would be ideal yet but it's a possibility.
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post #30 of 31
no it's not. Mechanical drives can't do it. They have to wait for the platters to rotate round under the heads, which means they can't pick and choose what data they send out to the controller.

As far as is possible, most controllers already do what you're asking for when running in RAID1 (you can see your read IOPs go up). But they just can't do it for sequential transfers - it is impossible.

It does work with SSDs though, as these drives can read any block the controller asks for with effectively zero latency. And you can see it happening if you bench 2 in RAID1. You can then get a pretty decent boost in sequential speeds (but you still lose half your capacity).
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