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How much better is having a push pull system?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Plan on getting a RX480 rad and I'm curious how much better my temps would be with having a push pull system compared to just having a push or pull system.

Also what kind of screws will I need to mount the rad and 25mm fans in a push/pull setup on an 800D?

Thanks.
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Verktøy Cu
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post #2 of 27
Push/pull helps, but I wouldn't expect to see a delta higher than 5C prior. That's worth a lot to extreme overclockers, but a push or pull system will be just fine if you're on a budget. Just grab four nice 120mm fans if you don't intend to do anything crazy.

Not sure about the mounting, sorry.
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post #3 of 27
I am kindof in the same boat as you with the push pull thing. Because of an ordering mistake, I am left holding the bag on twice the number of fans that i needed. This sets me up perfectly for a push pull system but I am not sure if the gains are worth keeping them vs selling them to anyone who wants them. Also none of my fans came with mounting screws. My radiators are on back order so i have no way of knowing what length or thread of screw to use (fans are 25mm thick). I am deff subbing this thread. I hope you get an answer.
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post #4 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the reply 5outh. I'll check on the budget and see what the plan is from there. +rep.

Anyone else on the mounting?
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post #5 of 27
Well i have an H50 and it came with screws that are long enough to go through both screw holes of the fan, through the case and into the rad. Probably what you need.
    
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post #6 of 27
I've done push/pull on a quad radiator with individual TFC fan shrouds...LOUD, but then again it was with Scythe Slipstream 1900's and keeping both a 4870x2 and TEC'd QX9650 cool in the same loop, so I couldn't afford to turn down the fan speed.

Edit: The TFC shrouds come with long enough screws.
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post #7 of 27
For mounting you can use something like this:

http://www.aquatuning.us/product_inf...unk-black.html

Or this:


http://www.aquatuning.us/product_inf...el--4pcs-.html

I have an XSPC RX360 with GT-15's in push pull and it keeps my rig nice and cool.

When thinking about push pull that should be second to more rad. If you have a choice between adding another row of fans or adding another rad, the second rad will give you more cooling performance. That said, if your rad with one sided fans is already cooling the water with in a few degrees of ambient adding more rad or push pull will do nothing. Think of cooling only a CPU with a 360 rad. Adding more fans, higher flow, or more rad will have zero effect because any decent 360 has way more cooling capacity than a single OC'ed CPU could generate even with low speed fans on one side.

Doing push pull allows you to get closer to the maximum performance for any given rad (meaning getting the water closer to ambient). But adding more overall surface area will give you more bang for your buck (meaning more rad) assuming the rad you have is not able to dissipate the thermal load from your set up.

For me, I didn't have the space to add more rad and didn't want to mod so I wanted to squeeze all the performance out of my rad with minimal noise. It gave me about 6c better cooling by doing push pull. Doing this also allowed me to go with quieter GT-15's instead of single sided 3000 RPM noise monsters for similar cooling performance.

So like most things, the answer is, it depends.
post #8 of 27
I generally wouldn't bother with Push-Pull, but if you are going that route, you should be fine with just picking up some 1-1/4" 6-32 machine screws to mount the second fan. Those are the screws for the XSPC RX360 according to performance-pcs, and I used those screws when mounting push-pull on my corsair H50 when I had it.

I switched this morning to 38mm fans from 25mm to try to keep the computer quieter at full blast. I believe it definitely dropped the db, it's probably 25% quieter with the same performance, but I was expecting more I wouldn't really ever bother with push-pull though as mentioned before, even though by higher FPI rad might take advantage of it. I'd rather just put higher static pressure fans on.
post #9 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.GumbyM.D. View Post
I wouldn't really ever bother with push-pull though as mentioned before, even though by higher FPI rad might take advantage of it. I'd rather just put higher static pressure fans on.
why? pressure does not equal CFM, and CFM determines how much fresh air is passing over/through the fins which ultimately cool the rad.

I also disagree with the theory that a push and pull system is any more effective than one using only push or pull because even at the lowest speed setting the standard 120mm fan will easily push air out the other side of even the thickest rad. What then, is the point of a pull fan? Theoretically, it could improve air speed by dropping the pressure in between the rad (which tends to happen when you create more vacuum), but the problem is the air speed will still be limited by the feed rate of the push fan.

To conclude: a pull fan in addition to a push fan will not cause any additional air to pass over the rad fins, meaning no additional heat will get exchanged in any given time frame. Any benefits being noted are perceived.
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post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrol View Post
why? pressure does not equal CFM, and CFM determines how much fresh air is passing over/through the fins which ultimately cool the rad.

I also disagree with the theory that a push and pull system is any more effective than one using only push or pull because even at the lowest speed setting the standard 120mm fan will easily push air out the other side of even the thickest rad. What then, is the point of a pull fan? Theoretically, it could improve air speed by dropping the pressure in between the rad (which tends to happen when you create more vacuum), but the problem is the air speed will still be limited by the feed rate of the push fan.

To conclude: a pull fan in addition to a push fan will not cause any additional air to pass over the rad fins, meaning no additional heat will get exchanged in any given time frame. Any benefits being noted are perceived.
I don't know much about the subject, however if I were to take a stab at it, the reason for push/pull being popular or even recommended could just follow along my lines of reasoning that pressure, not always CFM is as important as I claim it to be. I believe it depends on the radiator, but I've heard that with the HWlabs GTX (the radiator I have) air pressure matters as much if not more than just CFM, but it could be because of the very high FPI increasing resistance moreso than radiators of lower FPI.

High CFM fans may not be able to transfer as much air through a dense radiator because of that resistance. I could be wrong, but sources that I trust often recommend higher pressure fans for higher FPI radiators, and I trust their judgement, and it's not a huge investment or performance tradeoff either way.

I do agree though that the speed of the air moving through the radiator has to be reliant on both fans on either side working equally as effectively, otherwise it should slow the flow either on the intake or the exhaust.
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