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post #61 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethy666 View Post
No they are not. Rome is vastly more manageable and Shogun II is more intuitive. Empire tried to do too much and overwhelmed all but the most hardcore players.

Did it? Was it?

I must be a hardcore player then, because I thought it was simple to play, and I much preferred the world map, i'm still enjoying Shogun, but the map is tiny, and Japan doesn't lend itself much to tactical maneuvers, unlike in Empire when you had manage when to send fleets overseas.
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post #62 of 98
RTS?

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post #63 of 98
post #64 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
See my previous posts about my BW days. SCII is just as good, in fact TvZ specifically is more brilliant than any BW match up IMO.

I do play at a much higher level than most people so I see things a little more clearly .
sc2 is nowhere near as good, not fundamentally and definitely not at this moment in time. here is a nice article: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=213083
post #65 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuashke View Post
sc2 is nowhere near as good, not fundamentally and definitely not at this moment in time. here is a nice article: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=213083
I read the article, and my guess I've played both games at a much higher level than you. TvZ in SCII is easily more brilliant than any BW match up, even at pro level. I agree SCII needs to address some things that SC1 did better, like some more creative unit designs, but we are still on the original release, and SC didn't get it right till BW either. Still, majority of SCII's disadvantages are easily fixable and the game has a lot more going for it than BW over all. BW was more or less accidentally a success. I do love BW though.

If you have looked through the SCII thread I bring up a lot of things I think should carry over from BW to SCII.. I've been arguing some of their points in that thread you linked as well... but still I'm a little more down to earth and see how brilliant SCII is compared to you who seems to live in the past.
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post #66 of 98
stick with dawn of war 2.

Nothing like defeating a far superior force through good planning and tactics with a much weaker army. Games like SC2 dont allow for that, An enemy with a far superior force will always win just because of attrition.

There is noting more awesome than watching your dreadnaught stomp through cover to get to some enemies and proceed to pick them up smash them on the ground and throw them across the map.

The fact that every unit in DOW2 have melee and ranged attacks makes for quite dynamic battles, where you can send a crap melee unit into melee combat just so you can tie up his elite ranged squad in melee combat, and render it useless gives more depth to the game than you will find elsewhere.

The game is more than Rock/paper/scissors. its is that rock sitting behind cover, or is the paper close or far away, did you upgrade the scissors with flamers, or plasma cannon?
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post #67 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomDash View Post
I read the article, and my guess I've played both games at a much higher level than you. TvZ in SCII is easily more brilliant than any BW match up, even at pro level. I agree SCII needs to address some things that SC1 did better, like some more creative unit designs, but we are still on the original release, and SC didn't get it right till BW either. Still, majority of SCII's disadvantages are easily fixable and the game has a lot more going for it than BW over all. BW was more or less accidentally a success. I do love BW though.

If you have looked through the SCII thread I bring up a lot of things I think should carry over from BW to SCII.. I've been arguing some of their points in that thread you linked as well... but still I'm a little more down to earth and see how brilliant SCII is compared to you who seems to live in the past.
you can guess whatever you like, however i really doubt you are up to date with brood war

living in the past? bw is still runnin' as good as ever, even blizzard cant touch us (read: blizzard law suit.)

tvz is brilliant in sc2, why? the units are blander, the spells are blander (and they cast themselves), micro has been nubified, harassment is almost non existant and has been replaced by tragic ball on ball junk, positioning is a non-issue because units clump together and the list goes on and on...

how will blizzard address these? do you have faith in blizzard to release a game that is actually competitive? i certainly dont, not with the mass patching and nerfing theyve been doing with sc2. there's already been more balance patches than brood war has had in its entirety =/

go on, show me an enthralling tvz game in sc2 and ill compare it to a top level bw vod
post #68 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhati View Post
Nothing like defeating a far superior force through good planning and tactics with a much weaker army. Games like SC2 dont allow for that, An enemy with a far superior force will always win just because of attrition.
You can defeat a far superior army in SC1/2. Maybe not as much of Dawn of War 2, but pros like Boxer made a career out of being super out macroed and winning tournaments with superior control / tactics.
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post #69 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhati View Post
stick with dawn of war 2.

Nothing like defeating a far superior force through good planning and tactics with a much weaker army. Games like SC2 dont allow for that, An enemy with a far superior force will always win just because of attrition.

There is noting more awesome than watching your dreadnaught stomp through cover to get to some enemies and proceed to pick them up smash them on the ground and throw them across the map.

The fact that every unit in DOW2 have melee and ranged attacks makes for quite dynamic battles, where you can send a crap melee unit into melee combat just so you can tie up his elite ranged squad in melee combat, and render it useless gives more depth to the game than you will find elsewhere.

The game is more than Rock/paper/scissors. its is that rock sitting behind cover, or is the paper close or far away, did you upgrade the scissors with flamers, or plasma cannon?
planning, positioning and hand speed are all important factors in determining the outcome of a battle in sc, as well as just pure numbers. however, all else equal, a superior army should come out on top - and thats exactly the way it should be

id argue that sc has much richer strategies and tactics, as its been played and analysed on a professional level for over a decade
post #70 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuashke View Post
you can guess whatever you like, however i really doubt you are up to date with brood war

living in the past? bw is still runnin' as good as ever, even blizzard cant touch us (read: blizzard law suit.)

tvz is brilliant in sc2, why? the units are blander, the spells are blander (and they cast themselves), micro has been nubified, harassment is almost non existant and has been replaced by tragic ball on ball junk, positioning is a non-issue because units clump together and the list goes on and on...

how will blizzard address these? do you have faith in blizzard to release a game that is actually competitive? i certainly dont, not with the mass patching and nerfing theyve been doing with sc2. there's already been more balance patches than brood war has had in its entirety =/

go on, show me an enthralling tvz game in sc2 and ill compare it to a top level bw vod
I could send you plenty sadly GSL videos aren't free. It more or less sounds like a lack of a SCII education that leads you to those conclusions. I am framilar with both. Again I played SC1/BW for a long long time, even longer than SCII. You will just have to understand a lot of what you're saying doesn't make sense coming from a player who plays both, or has played both at the point only a little far off from pro level.

Go find SCfou vs Nestea game 5 on crossfire.

Or boxer vs sen from the TSL3.

and yes there have been more balance patches than BW, because as I said BW was accidentally a success. More or less Blizzard has released too many balance patches in SCII instead of letting time go by to work out the new strategies. I think they are learning from this a little now though. People always had the idea that BW was just balanced, and for that reason the players generally never whined to Blizzard to change it.

What I'm going to say is its the things you will learn playing that make SCII beautiful, you should really just give it a chance so you can see how amazing and deep it is.


Also man SC1 was broken.
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