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[Engadget] Sony Pictures hacked by Lulz Security - Page 13  

post #121 of 185
*facepalms*
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post #122 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
No, you're missing the entire point behind it all. The original modders for the XBox firmaware couldn't be sued because they built THEIR OWN FIRMWARE rather than hacking Microsoft's. Had Geohot done that, there'd be no issue. And had Geohot kept the code to himself or provided a How-to online, Sony couldn't have done anything. Instead he released the modified firmware to the internet.

Instead of actually building something, he took other people's hacking work, and took it further. He's a sham. That's all he is. he did the same with his iPhone firmware. Then he begs for support money to fight Sony, and what does he do? He settles.

When you screw with a company's intellectual property, you're gonna get sued. Simple as that.
Eh, I honestly think, while you make good points, you're still missing the big picture. He released a firmware incapable of running pirated content, whereas another group released one, based on Geohots code, that could pirate and did Sony chase them? No, they went for the guy who DIDN'T allow piracy. I think 90% of the outrage is the ridiculousness of who Sony went for!

Also, he's not a sham. The Official PS3 firmware works fine. I can't imagine having to build my own software for it. Why write an entirely new piece of code when you can change a few lines of another and have a fully customisable device? Sure there's more prominence in writing your own. But, erm, the first Xbox modded firmware was based on an official version for a fair while before it become unrecognisable. You have to start somewhere and the official, working, base is a good place.

I understand your anger and I see your points, but those last two paragraphs were insanely off the mark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatliner View Post
EXACTLY! Finally, it seems like everyone on these boards now are all pro doing whatever the heck you want with devices you "own".

Here's a new one, in order to "own" any of these products, you specifically agreed to the terms and conditions that were provided either on or in the box or at the initial time of setup.

Think of the recent South Park episode human centipad. Even by not reading the ToS but clicking Agree makes it a binding legal document, case and point. You break that agreement, you suffer the consequences.

Ownership of the hardware, sure, however almost any and all software you have is simply a license to use that software. You'd be hard pressed to find any software out there that a business uses to make money, have a license agreement allowing you to modify and distribute it. Last I checked, Sony's software does not utilize the GNU General Public License in any way.
Pffft, no EULA can supercede your statutory rights. If I write some line into an EULA that says after 20 days you have to pay me £10 for I get to cut a nut off that EULA is invalid from the moment it's written. There is no legally binding BS with an EULA, least not in the UK. If the EULA contains a clause that tries to remove or supercede a basic consumer right it is invalid. An EULA that tries to limit your ownership on the hardware becomes invalid as we have the right to use and abuse the hardware within the limits of the law, and you are always innocent until proven guilty.

This is why publishers couldn't go on the all out war on preowned games, because consumers have a statutory right to free trade. So instead they have those VIP codes in the box to get around it. Which supercedes your right via a loophole to the point that your rights are still intact.
    
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post #123 of 185
Nice post Viridian, and to further cement the BS that is their EULA, it also states in it that they will take ZERO responsibility if all your personal data is stolen and a thief clears out your bank account with it.

I guess that means everyone who was upset with the security breaches is completely in the wrong right? Cause they signed the EULA with their blood.
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post #124 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takayanagi-Phoenix View Post
Nice post Viridian, and to further cement the BS that is their EULA, it also states in it that they will take ZERO responsibility if all your personal data is stolen and a thief clears out your bank account with it.

I guess that means everyone who was upset with the security breaches is completely in the wrong right? Cause they signed the EULA with their blood.
...Who cares what it's signed in? YOU agreed to it, didn't you?

You're signing a EULA that says: Our intellectual property is ours, you can't build on it, edit it or change it in any way. WE copyrighted it, WE wrote it and we're asking you to respect that.

I don't comprehend why that's so hard to understand? Am I ignorant?

If a hacker, illegally obtains data, the hacker is responsible...He broke into a server that he had no right to legally enter, stole data that he had no right to legally take and then exploits that data by selling it. The hacker is responsible regardless of the encryption on that data.

I don't quite see how you can claim sony is in the wrong when they're not the ones doing anything illegal, regardless of your personal views.
post #125 of 185
Point being, if you don't accept the license agreement, no one is forcing you to use the product.

Purchasing and using their device and software is a privilege, not a right. Follow their rules, or too franking bad.
    
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post #126 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post
...Who cares what it's signed in? YOU agreed to it, didn't you?

You're signing a EULA that says: Our intellectual property is ours, you can't build on it, edit it or change it in any way. WE copyrighted it, WE wrote it and we're asking you to respect that.

I don't comprehend why that's so hard to understand? Am I ignorant?

If a hacker, illegally obtains data, the hacker is responsible...He broke into a server that he had no right to legally enter, stole data that he had no right to legally take and then exploits that data by selling it. The hacker is responsible regardless of the encryption on that data.

I don't quite see how you can claim sony is in the wrong when they're not the ones doing anything illegal, regardless of your personal views.
And because Copyright Law has never gotten in the way of genuine advancement. Ever, right?

Hacking data and hacking firmware are two different things. Totally different things.

I wouldn't call you ignorant, just wilfully negligent of valid opinions.

It's like Android phones. HTC just finally allowed their bootloaders to be unlocked, which means they're giving the go ahead for people loading custom ROM's onto their devices. Initially, they were suing people for hacking their HTC Sense firmwares, they stopped that also. At the end of the day, HTC sell phones, not software. So if people are using a HTC phone that's all that matters.

In this case, Sony sell PS3's and Videogames. So long as no-one is pirating their games, what damn should they give if people hack their console to run homebrew firmwares? Who gives a toss if someone puts Linux on their PS3 and runs it like a desktop PC? That's a PS3 sale, at the end of the day. Their big problem should have been pirated games, and since Geohot didn't allow pirated content and simply published copyrighted content on the web. Yet they wanted blood and they thought they could sue anyone running custom firmware (asking for paypal and youtube addresses) and that was just complete bull. THAT'S why people are very unsympathetic for Sony at the moment. That and the fact that their security was pants on head stupid. Plaintext credit card details. Random integers that happens to be the same each time? Seems more like someone was pissed off at Sony HQ due to their own bungles and wanted someone else to pay. Who's at fault? Geohot, or the Sony engineer who concocted the idea of using the same "random" number each time? Is it geohots fault that anyone can sign content with Sony's Private Key?

Pfft. It's ok citing copyright and trying to get on the morally obliged brigade. but that doesn't exactly serve you well when you're talking to tech enthusiasts. Under your same ideas, people unlocking cores on their AMD CPU's are free game to being sued?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatliner View Post
Point being, if you don't accept the license agreement, no one is forcing you to use the product.

Purchasing and using their device and software is a privilege, not a right. Follow their rules, or too franking bad.
Haha! Purchasing something is a privilege? Sorry, but Sony aren't rich enough to restrict who buys the console. Anyone with the cash, will and want to buy one can have one. Hacking it open and smashing it with a massive hammer is a privilege of owning one (can't smash up a PS3 if you don't have one!) You only need to follow their rules if you care about being on the Playstation Network.
    
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post #127 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post
...Who cares what it's signed in? YOU agreed to it, didn't you?

You're signing a EULA that says: Our intellectual property is ours, you can't build on it, edit it or change it in any way. WE copyrighted it, WE wrote it and we're asking you to respect that.

I don't comprehend why that's so hard to understand? Am I ignorant?

If a hacker, illegally obtains data, the hacker is responsible...He broke into a server that he had no right to legally enter, stole data that he had no right to legally take and then exploits that data by selling it. The hacker is responsible regardless of the encryption on that data.

I don't quite see how you can claim sony is in the wrong when they're not the ones doing anything illegal, regardless of your personal views.
Did you skip my previous post or something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takayanagi-Phoenix View Post
Cept you haven't read anything I typed and just rehashed arguments against people with opinions like Codejunki's. ... I've mentioned that Sony have made suggestions that you don't own your hardware to any extent - you only own the right to use it. That's what I disagree with.
Again I point out, I'm in no way supporting modification of Sony's OS/Software/firmware. Can you not read? I was picking at the EULA as people like you hold it up as the word of law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatliner View Post
Point being, if you don't accept the license agreement, no one is forcing you to use the product.

Purchasing and using their device and software is a privilege, not a right. Follow their rules, or too franking bad.
... Do you work for Sony per chance?
Edited by Takayanagi-Phoenix - 6/3/11 at 9:39am
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post #128 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatliner View Post
Point being, if you don't accept the license agreement, no one is forcing you to use the product.

Purchasing and using their device and software is a privilege, not a right. Follow their rules, or too franking bad.
Buy PS3, never log on or create a PSN account or use firmware update, install custom firmware, completely legal as you haven't even agreed to the EULA.
It applies IF you actually use either your first update or once you've signed for PSN.
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post #129 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
Haha! Purchasing something is a privilege? Sorry, but Sony aren't rich enough to restrict who buys the console. Anyone with the cash, will and want to buy one can have one. Hacking it open and smashing it with a massive hammer is a privilege of owning one (can't smash up a PS3 if you don't have one!) You only need to follow their rules if you care about being on the Playstation Network.

Are you seriously saying purchasing something is your absolute right? As far as I am concerned, any business holds the right to refuse business to anyone for any particular reason.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Takayanagi-Phoenix View Post
... Do you work for Sony per chance?

I do not, I just don't understand how anyone can support a group that is intentionally stealing information from perfectly good people. Draw the line, these attacks on Sony are harming good people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecchi-BANZAII!!! View Post
Buy PS3, never log on or create a PSN account or use firmware update, install custom firmware, completely legal as you haven't even agreed to the EULA.
It applies IF you actually use either your first update or once you've signed for PSN.
Pretty sure the warranty and license information is right in the box that it comes in.
    
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post #130 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatliner View Post
Pretty sure the warranty and license information is right in the box that it comes in.
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