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post #31 of 49
The VRM's on the GTX 590 were a problem at one point so I wouldn't overclock it. The HD 6990 does better with the FPS as everyone said but not that much better. Its up to the buyer and their needs. If he/she was going to play a lot of games that would benefit with nVidia technology like PhysX and was going to run CUDA applications then go with nVidia. If you were really scrutinizing other areas like power consumption then nVidia probably wouldn't have been the best choice
post #32 of 49
Ever since the days of the first 3D cards (I had 3DFX Voodoo's in SLI back then), the companies have always come out with a "Double Chip" card to gain some headway while they scratched their heads over what to do next. In almost every case, the DUAL GPU cards flopped for one reason or another with few (not none!) exceptions.

Due to the multiple reasons sighted in countless ATI/NVidia threads, the real question is "what is the cost vs. performance vs. realestate (PCIe slots)" benefit?

First of all, let me say I think water cooling is the only way to go from a temperature AND a fan noise perspective. But, everyone's tolerances and wishes are different.

Since they are the same GPU's, it makes sense to compare in a dual configuration as follows:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/298?vs=308

Both the ATI and Nvidia cards have their strengths depending on the optimization levels of the drivers. Simply combining the GPU's on a dual card is WORSE in all cases due to localized heat and power demands.

So, the arguments become moot, there is no clear winner with both GPU's running at the 90 Percentile level or above.

Therefore, it seems you pick your poison according to personal tastes and don't bother to argue about it because there is no way to argue! There is no clear winner in "general" terms in all cases...

But, there "is" a clear argument AGAINST "any" Dual GPU card at present.

JMHO


Edited by Tex1954 - 6/5/11 at 7:35am
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post #33 of 49
Main Disadvantages of Dual GPU cards:
1) Often louder than the single card equivalents ... although this varies with different board layouts

2) They are typically overpriced vs. 2 of their single-card equivalents, at least the equivalent performing cards (i.e. the 5970 actually performs like 2x5850, GTX295 performs like 2x260, 590 performs like 2x570, etc.)

3) If it breaks, you got nothing

4) Can't sell only one of your two cards like you can w/regular SLI/Xfire

Main Advantages of dual GPU cards:
1) Double the power with the same amount of board real-estate. If you like to tinker in your case a lot, it's nice to have the extra room in there.

2) Nice option if you have an older 16x/4x type of board, or a board where two cards would be sandwiched together in SLI/XFire.

3) Generally you can get away with a less expensive PSU than what you'd need for an equivalent SLI/Xfire setup, if not due to lower power draw, then due to only needing two PCI-Ex power cables instead of four.

4) They only need one water block, if you're into the water cooling.

5) In the case of AMD, you can add a third card for tri-fire.

6) Quad-SLI/Fire becomes possible with pretty much any board/case combo.

If it were me, I'd probably go with the 590, but that's mainly because I really prefer quiet cards (which is why I run my clocks/volts so low for 24/7 use).

But it's also because I'm very suspicious of the way that AMD basically overnight (i.e. w/a driver release) improved their Crossfire scaling dramatically about 6 months ago. I strongly suspect that they did this by telling their driver to abandon attempting to evenly distribute the frametimes.

IOW, I suspect that AMD has recently achieved such great multi-gpu scaling ... by reprogramming their drivers to allow more microstutter.
Edited by brettjv - 6/5/11 at 10:58am
    
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post #34 of 49
The 6990 in high power mode is 450 watts by itself. ONE FAN cools it and it's a large card. So, I would think someone would need at least an 850 watt PS to handle that with a good system besides. The 590 is about 375 watts. Add another as you suggested and there goes the single PCIe PS argument out the window. Also, to add another 225+ watt card you need a better PS anyway! So the power supply argument is moot... they have what is needed or they don't.

6970 and 580 are about 250 watts spread over a larger physical area (combined) and using a pair of them is about the same cost as using one larger dual card but a little more power in total. BUT, you get double the cooling systems with double the fans and lower power density.

I have to say that anyone buying these cards is probably not going to put them into a Pentium 3 or K6 system... rather they probably have at least a modern dual core system with at least 2 gig mem. Less than that is pure silly since they will be terribly CPU bottle-necked at high resolutions.

I'm glad you agree about the realestate/PCIe issue, it is a concern MAYBE.

I think these cards are aimed at the HIGH END user and likely they have systems that can handle more than one card. But, with everything else being equal, I suppose it falls to the tiny less significant points to make a decision. But some bits of argument you mention are mutually exclusive!

You can't buy thinking you will add another card later on a marginal PS or because of marginal space or marginal base PC Mobo issues!! Buy a dual GPU on that basis and you are stuck with a single video card option without upgrading something else. That's fine if that is ones intent. Chrome the engine then paint the car eah? You see what I mean? Put any two of some points together and they exclude each other as a basis for making a decision! So, I presume one would decide based on only ONE point. High end system and high end users need not worry!

I stand with my statements, there are legitimate arguments AGAINST dual GPU cards, but having decided to use one, pick your poison!

I see no real argument against what I said, only possible "single point" reasons to decide to go double GPU rather than paired cards in SLI/CF. I sure think whomever buys a dual card won't be disappointed provided their system can handle it!!

We will see how long the boards last. My friend has a 6990 in his system and it's a screamer... I wish him luck and so far so good! (noise is bad, but runs great!!)


Edited by Tex1954 - 6/5/11 at 1:04pm
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post #35 of 49
Well benchmarks of 590 and 6990 Quad SLI/Crossfire against each other. ALL benchmark at higher resolution of 2560x1600 on April 6, 2011 off Trubritar's YouTube videos

AvP, DX11 - 590's Quad avg FPS = 116.3 / 6990 Quad avg FPS = 70.3
Metro 2033 - 590 avg FPS = 44.6 / 6990 avg = 51.33
3D Mark 11 - 590 scores = 14019 & 5688 / 6990 scores= 13711 & 5739
Heaven 2.5 - 590 avg FPS = 34.6 / 6990 avg FPS = 30.2

These were done at default clock vs 6990 Extreme BIOS. Since the 6990 has better over clocks end results over clocked will lean to the 6990 for performance. Even though 580 > 6970 single GPU the 590 < 6990 dual GPU, though I was surprised at scaling of Nvidia.

The 590 runs cooler and quieter if your taking that into consideration.

Personally dual GPU's like Brettjv stated have their own issues and I'd prefer two single GPU's in SLI/Crossfire over dual GPU's anyday.

Make no mistake, either card will result in great gaming at the end of the day and will take you easily to Q4 2012 when the second round/series of 28nm fabrication pcb's are released.
     
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post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by exlink View Post
Well I guess that sucks for you cause I can never tell. Sure I can tell the difference between say 30 and 40 FPS, but 33 and 36? No, the difference is too negligible for me and probably the majority of people to differentiate. And could you really tell the difference between 86 and 92 FPS? Both would be so incredibly fluid that I really doubt you could; the only way I could see you possibly telling the difference is if one had a substantially lower minimum frames per second than the other that dipped well into the 20's or 30's. Thats only the possible way I could see you spotting any difference in gameplay at that high of frames per second.

I will pull the ol' "the human eye can only process 60 FPS" quote regardless if its true or not. I've gamed on a 120Hz monitor (wanted to give 3D a shot ) and played Bad Company 2; the frames per second went anywhere from 80-110 FPS (this was in 2D) and I could not for the life of me tell the difference when it was 80 or 110 FPS let alone 86 or 92 FPS.

Guess you have some great eyes there! ...or mine just suck?
I also fly quite often, you need to see minor things like that. The human eye sees over 200FPS, cause in most pilot schools they show a picture for 1/200th of a second.
    
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post #37 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider_2001 View Post
6990 out performs the 590....However the 590 will fold better....

Really just depends on what you want to do with it I guess.
I'm always curious why people mention that Nvidia cards Fold faster, but fail to mention that AMD cards BOINC faster?
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post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by sccr64472 View Post
I'm always curious why people mention that Nvidia cards Fold faster, but fail to mention that AMD cards BOINC faster?
Cause people are silly and think that Folding has ever helped anyone(keep in mind I have the Alzheimer gene, already tested), while it hasn't. BOINC has done great work already though. People also forget they offset the folding help by putting stress and other horrible things on Mother Earth.
    
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post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Main Disadvantages of Dual GPU cards:
1) Often louder than the single card equivalents ... although this varies with different board layouts

2) They are typically overpriced vs. 2 of their single-card equivalents, at least the equivalent performing cards (i.e. the 5970 actually performs like 2x5850, GTX295 performs like 2x260, 590 performs like 2x570, etc.)

3) If it breaks, you got nothing

4) Can't sell only one of your two cards like you can w/regular SLI/Xfire

If it were me, I'd probably go with the 590, but that's mainly because I really prefer quiet cards (which is why I run my clocks/volts so low for 24/7 use).

But it's also because I'm very suspicious of the way that AMD basically overnight (i.e. w/a driver release) improved their Crossfire scaling dramatically about 6 months ago. I strongly suspect that they did this by telling their driver to abandon attempting to evenly distribute the frametimes.

IOW, I suspect that AMD has recently achieved such great multi-gpu scaling ... by reprogramming their drivers to allow more microstutter.
But!

More PPD.

This is why I'd like to check out the "political" landscape of these cards before moving towards either two 590s, tri fire/other cards.


OH man.. I can't believe I just got baited into another one of "these" threads.
Edited by yellowtoblerone - 6/5/11 at 3:46pm
    
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post #40 of 49
When ever I see another bench mark record, I see an nvidia card, cause champions go with Nvidia, enough said. If you got 700-800 dollars for a gpu why not get a good psu as well?

The reason why the 590 has those bad vrm's is because they probably ran out of their budget price point, in other terms when the 6990 came out, they wanted to match their price point.

If the gtx 590 did come out first, than it would of probably been around 950 to 1000 dollars and would of had better components and oc like crazy.

Anyway, expect to see oc like crazy with the gtx 595 asus rog card when it comes out. Than you can truly compare the 2 cards.


Besides, when Powercolor 6970x2 comes out, it will have the new LUCID chip and as far as I had heard it will enable it to have any other gpu card along with the 6970x2, so you could just get the 6970x2 and an asus gtx 595 MARS II and have all the goodies of both NVIDIA and AMD.
Edited by Captain1337 - 6/5/11 at 3:51pm
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