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[Nvidia] NVIDIA Launches PhysX 3.0 With Support For Emerging Gaming Platforms - Page 11

post #101 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruestle2 View Post
AMD didn't want it because they would have to pay nVidia for every graphics card sold. That means it is proprietary and that means that AMD would completely depend on nVidia not pulling the rug out from under them in the future. Agreeing to those terms would be market suicide.

AMD is coming out with a OpenCL implementation that will work on any video card with zero license fees. It will be a non-proprietary solution that anyone can use without having to worry about AMD pulling the rug from under their feet.

I am bashing it because it is proprietary, if that wasn't the case then it would be an awesome piece of software. What video card I own has NOTHING to do with it. This software will never get off the ground because of the fact that developers know that everybody can't use it. nVidia is having to PAY developers to use it because everyone knows it is proprietary and doesn't want it.
Ok, I posted the definition or propitiatory. Please read the definition, either again, or actually just read the damn thing.

Physx IS propitiatory. But not because of anything other than the fact that NVidia hasn't opened up the development for community based development.

The fact that, no, hang on, I'm going to quote you first:

Quote:
]AMD didn't want it because they would have to pay nVidia for every graphics card sold. That means it is proprietary
The fact that AMD didn't want to buy Physx licenses has nothing to do with the proprietary nature of Physx. Just as a sidenote commentary from myself, if AMD had bought into it, Physx being proprietary wouldn't matter.

You're bashing it because you an an AMD/ATI fanboy. There's nothing more to it and you can refute that until you're blue in the face. You're talking codswallop as it is, as you can't even describe the difference between open and proprietary.

To further debunk you:

What's this non-sense about NVidia pulling the proverbial rug form under AMD? Sorry, is there no such thing as contracts and deals? If AMD wanted Physx, they could have had it from Nvidia and entered into a pennies per GPU (that was the price) deal that would limit and restrict NVidia's ability to "pull the rug" from underneath them. Yes, that's right, it was a meer license deal away. The problem wasn't suicide from AMD, NOR was it a threat from NVidia it was simply that AMD DIDN'T want Physx.

AMD tosses around the idea of acquiring Ageia

Quote:
Richard Huddy saying, “we’ve had that discussion, yes. It’s a discussion that goes round every three months – someone turns to me and says “why don’t we buy Ageia?”
Why didn't AMD want to buy Ageia? Because they were planning on their own Havok FX implementation:



Which never got off the ground, because Intel bought Havok, then pulled FX support (as it ran on GPU's and not CPU's, which at the time, Intel wasn't in the business of making).

So then AMD goes on the offensive against Physx:

AMD says PhysX will die

Quote:
"There is no plan for closed and proprietary standards like PhysX," said Cheng. "As we have emphasised with our support for OpenCL and DX11, closed and proprietary standards will die."
And yet not a single OpenCL game to date.

AMD: Nvidia PhysX Will Be Irrelevant.

Quote:
In fact, AMD believes that with the raise of popularity of DirectCompute and OpenCL APIs, proprietary PhysX will soon vanish into oblivion.

“Physics can be a good thing for gamers, but it should be for all gamers. When it’s available for everyone, game developers will be able to make physics an integral part of gameplay, rather than just extra eye candy. This requires a physics solution built on industry standards. That’s why DirectX 11 is such a great inflection point for our industry – DirectCompute allows game physics that can be enjoyed by everyone. There are several initiatives (some open-source) that will deliver awesome GPU-based physics for everyone, using either DirectCompute or OpenCL. Industry standards will make any proprietary standard irrelevant,” said Neal Robison, director of global independent software vendors relationship for AMD, in an interview with Icrontic web-site.
In 2009 there were 7 Physx games released, yet not a single OpenCL or Bullet Time game released. Two years, still going strong. Tegra 2/3 integration with Physx, several titles again released later that year. Still no OpenCL standard drawn up, drafted or implemented.




Sorry, but AMD had the chance to buy Ageia, they had the chance to freely negotiate with NVidia over licensing Physx and they thumbed the nose of each company, each time. After the smear campaign put forward by AMD over Physx, It's hardly surprising that NVidia blocked the use of Physx with an ATI card in the system. AMD CEO's and COO's spent a long time trashing Physx and trying to get it to burn in a fire, because, what? NVidia bought a great piece of technology and offered it to them at a price? I don't know a single business in the world that's into giving away their acquisitions for free. There is no issue of pulling the rug from under them and there was never a threat. AMD quite plainly put all their eggs in the Havok FX basket before NVidia bought Physx. Not wanting to deal with a competitor, they told them to get out. Which is all fine and well, except you get AMD fanboys moaning and whinging about Physx simply because it locked out to them and they can't use it and people like me, whoare gadget and technology nerds, get sick of seeing these people rant and rave about crap they don't understand and haven't read the background on.

I'll say it again loud and clear:

ATI card? Problem with Physx? Blame AMD. They twice had the chance.
Edited by Viridian - 6/30/11 at 9:57am
    
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post #102 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
Heheh hes got ATI.
I dont, but I still feel non-proprietary physics engines are the way to go. Physx requires way too high system requirements for what it actually provides.
post #103 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behrouz View Post
I dont, but I still feel non-proprietary physics engines are the way to go. Physx requires way too high system requirements for what it actually provides.
What, an 8800GT? Yeah, someone with a GTX580 Twin Frozr III struggles to find the cash for one of those.

Anyway, how can you be so certain that non-proprietary Physics implementation is the way forward when there isn't anything to compare to?

Where are the Havok FX games? DMM? Bullet Time? OpenCL?

They don't exist because of their very nature:
  • Havok is proprietary and costs fees.
  • DMM is, again, proprietary yet has full backing of both AMD and NVidia (strange, thought AMD wanted openness?). This found it's way into Star Wars: Force Unleashed, though.
  • Bullet Time is a CGI and motion capture software that, for some reason, AMD users think is the second coming of God. Yet it has zero games available by it.
  • OpenCL? Stuck in development hell. No standardised features and progress is slow, to say the very least. Not a single game to date. Also, a lot of people think OpenCL is about Physics, when in actual fact it's about getting the hell away from DirectX. It's basically OpenGL 3.0+ and it has both AMD and Nvidia on it's committee.

Physx is the only hardware accelerated Physics engine on the market that works and is being used. It's free to use and support is excellent and absolutely free. Give NVidia some endorsment space and they'll send a team of engineers to help program and implement it. No other implmentation on the market offers this.


Just want to say, as well, because someone is bound to do it, but no, I'm not the Physx poster boy, nor an NVidia fanboy. I could go on for days about AMD, Intel and NVidia and how crappy they all are. It's just, in this thread, I'm righting a lot of wrongs.
Edited by Viridian - 6/30/11 at 11:09am
    
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post #104 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrillex View Post
460 for physx ?

Can you say overkill ?
Mmm not really. Better than having a old 88GT or 260. Phsyx might be more demanding later, who knows. Wait a second, isnt this OCN? Why am I replying to your post then!!! MORE POWER IS BETTER!!!!!!!!
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post #105 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
Heheh hes got ATI.
Touché sir, Touché.
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post #106 of 145
Quote:
It looks like jealous, rabid, ridiculousness.
It looks rubbish
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post #107 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacA View Post
I'd love it if PhysX was available and non-crippled on AMD cards. Why? because the more PhysX is used, the better it will get.

For a developper, using PhysX means wasting time for something half his customers will be able to use. If PhysX was AMD compatible, it would be much easier.

Why doesn't AMD accepts Nvidia's offer to use PhysX? Because they don't want to pay their main competitor for something they will have no say in.
IMO, they should have just done it at the same time they certified AMD chipsets for SLI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilrbe3 View Post
AH HA!! I knew it, after I got my 570 i was gonna sell my 460, but something kept telling me to keep it and save it. Now with this, lets hope more Physx games!! 570 + 460 for physx.. awww sexy! *might have to reinstall Mafia 2 now *
Yeah and I have a 430...
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post #108 of 145
Hmmmmmmmmm why consoles ?!
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post #109 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
Erm, no.



The definition of proprietary is literally that NVidia and only NVidia control it's development. Implementation is free and so is support.

I've already posted a link showing why ATI users can't use Physx, but I'll just tell you: because AMD didn't want it. Blame AMD, not NVidia.

Also, this is OCN. Pursuit of Performance. If you want Physx in your ATI-main system, search the forums because there is a workaround for it. There is literally no excuse for the ATI-user bashing of Physx. It looks like jealous, rabid, ridiculousness.
Uh no. The term proprietary has nothing to do with that. That has to do with licensing (which is indirectly tied to proprietors). Nvidia could charge for implementation, support, or even reference if they wanted so long as other companies paid for a license to implement PhysX. ATI originally claimed that was the problem, whereas Nvidia claimed that it offered the technology for free. I don't see that as likely however, since Nvidia's later drivers automatically disabled PhysX Hardware acceleration in the presence of an ATI card. And really, there is a lot to bash about PhysX, like the terribly outdated code for CPU implementation. Code that has literally been left untouched since Nvidia bought it from Ageia.
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post #110 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post
Uh no. The term proprietary has nothing to do with that. That has to do with licensing (which is indirectly tied to proprietors). Nvidia could charge for implementation, support, or even reference if they wanted so long as other companies paid for a license to implement PhysX. ATI originally claimed that was the problem, whereas Nvidia claimed that it offered the technology for free. I don't see that as likely however, since Nvidia's later drivers automatically disabled PhysX Hardware acceleration in the presence of an ATI card. And really, there is a lot to bash about PhysX, like the terribly outdated code for CPU implementation. Code that has literally been left untouched since Nvidia bought it from Ageia.
Err, yeah, and I was talking about Physx itself, there, not the meaning of proprietary. I'd already posted the exact definition of it.

NVidia offered license with a fee. No one has ever said it was offered freely. But to implement it in a game is free and so is support. I haven't seen any NVidia claims that they offered them it for free. They DID offer CUDA for free, but ATI didn't want that (and haven't done a damn thing of note with Stream).

NVidia are in the business of making GPU's, so they've concentrated on the GPU acceleration (kind of NVidia's big CUDA selling point). Apparently they've start work on fixing some of that code up? They could banish altogether id they wanted, but they haven't so we should be at least grateful for that.

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with Physx and the sooner the whole issue gets sorted (so ATI users can use Physx with an NVidia card) the better. Then the people left moaning can just deal with it!
    
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [Nvidia] NVIDIA Launches PhysX 3.0 With Support For Emerging Gaming Platforms