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[extremetech] Windows 8 ARM wont have x86 emulation support - Page 2

post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Actually a large amount of x86 instructions are translated into RISC instructions by the processor before executing. These instructions will translate directly to ARM.


They only thing you'll be missing out on are SSE, MMX, AVX etc...
I think this points toward the right answer. Someone will write an x86 emulator. (I'd be surprised if Nvidia isn't working on one for Tegra2 right now.) Emulation won't be fast enough to play games, but it will be fast enough to run Office, or an SQL frontend, or other business applications.

The chief advantages of an ARM-based system will be cost and battery life. They'll be netbooks and tablets, platforms that weren't going to "fold or play Crysis" anyway.
    
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post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac the Geek View Post
I think this points toward the right answer. Someone will write an x86 emulator. (I'd be surprised if Nvidia isn't working on one for Tegra2 right now.) Emulation won't be fast enough to play games, but it will be fast enough to run Office, or an SQL frontend, or other business applications.

The chief advantages of an ARM-based system will be cost and battery life. They'll be netbooks and tablets, platforms that weren't going to "fold or play Crysis" anyway.
Office has already been ported to ARM.

If the application is Java based then your good to go.

I can see Java gaining popularity in this race. Write once run everywhere.
    
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post #13 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by justarealguy View Post
I see this as expected. x86 would be a royal pain to emulate on ARM architecture. Can it even be done? I know x86 is a monster in terms of legacy crap.
It has a lot of legacy, but most software doesn't care. It's mostly stuff that involves the process before you get into a modern OS.
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post #14 of 34
I would estimate that Visual Studio will get an update that will let you recompile for ARM. (After making a few notes of your new found errors.)
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post #15 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by dham View Post
If the application is Java based then your good to go.

I can see Java gaining popularity in this race. Write once run everywhere.

Windows developers are not going to drop their entire developer ecosystem and switch to Java. They already have a solution:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAlex View Post
The next version of Visual Studio could have a compile for Windows 8 option, meaning for ARM, x86 and the likes.
Exactly. Windows developers will continue to write their code in Visual Studio and output .NET bytecode. Microsoft will release a .NET runtime for Windows 8 ARM, of that you can be 100% certain. So the only real issue is whether the people that compile unmanaged code (which includes, unfortunately, game developers) will have an ARM compiler available. And I'm sure they will, but MS's focus is going to be on .NET first.
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post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac the Geek View Post
I think this points toward the right answer. Someone will write an x86 emulator. (I'd be surprised if Nvidia isn't working on one for Tegra2 right now.) Emulation won't be fast enough to play games, but it will be fast enough to run Office, or an SQL frontend, or other business applications.
There are legal questions that surround x86 emulation.... do you require licenses?

Transmeta did x86 emulation-like design with their Crusoe and Efficeon.
China is supposedly attempting it with their Loongson 3.
Once again...
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post #17 of 34
I still remember FX!32:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FX!32
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post #18 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
Windows developers are not going to drop their entire developer ecosystem and switch to Java. They already have a solution:
Yes I understand that, but if you want to support Windows 86/arm, MacOSX 86/arm, Linux, etc in one go then it's going to be easier with Java/Scala.

And yes .NET(*cough rip off of JVM) support on ARM will be as easy as porting the runtime to the environment. Just like in Java.
    
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post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clap yo' hands View Post
I don't see how it will hurt its adoption. People with the capable ARM hardware will get Windows 8, people on x86 PCs will get Windows 7. 7 will basically be the new XP for a while, MS will keep it going for probably a decade at least, judging by how slow people's adoption of new hardware usually is. Since future CPUs are likely to support x86 for a while, dual booting Win7 and 8 will be your option if you want to run x86 software as well.
Windows 8 will support both the x86-64 and ARM architectures.

You will not be able to "dual boot" an x86 operating system on an ARM chip that does not support hardware emulation of the x86 instruction set.

The logical next step would be to look into adding direct x86 simulation into Windows 8, but that would require an entire virtualization layer, which is more load to deal with.
post #20 of 34
Can you imagine how poorly such emulation would run? I'm not surprised.
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