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post #251 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post
Yeah the videos look nice but since they are going the same route as Oblivion (which was developed for the Xbox 360 as a base) it's no longer a day 1 purchase, neither was Oblivion for me. I waited until the Game of The Year Edition came out before I bought it.

Bethesda is being up front and honest, of which I thank them for doing but it doesn't change the facts.

The whole point to PC gaming is the industry has sold us DX 11 graphics cards and for what? A couple games? The developers are lazy and greedy and have not even kept up with the hardware. Multi core CPUs are not utilized and neither are our DX 11 GPUs. What's the point of having them if no one is going to develop games for them? DX 12 will be out before DX 11 PC games are common.
You do realize most of the PC gaming community itself are still using entry level dx10 cards such as the 8800gt (which cant handle dx10 in most games anyways) and thats just the PC gaming community, consoles are still stuck in dx9.

Developers are not going to focus on the small minority that has killer hardware, your purchase is the same as a console users purchase. Also games like FO3 and Oblivion were pirated to hell and back, being a SP game they are especially vulnerable, Bethesda is not going to gamble their big hitter by focusing on PC. Yes I know consoles have piracy but its not nearly the same scale at all.

I said it before maybe gpu makers such as nvidia or ati should start releasing games or sending some of those huge profits to devs to develop a cutting edge PC game, to encourage people to buy gfx cards. None of the money you pay for a gfx card goes to game companies anyways so why should companies like Bethesda care?
Edited by sausageson - 6/9/11 at 8:43am
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post #252 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk777th View Post
Name me some real ports that haven't suffered from it.
ME2, Oblivion, Portal 2, Blur, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas.

All of those were made mainly for consoles with differing amounts of effort put into the PC versions, none were any worse than the console versions and all but one were better in terms of what you can do with the game, all of them are better in terms of controls and graphical quality.

And that's just off the top of my head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechati View Post
Isnt' it THEIR job to make sure the final product is in best working condition rather to the attitude "eh, modders can fix all that, im simply too lazy to do my job", especially with all ideas they get from players?
I never said it isn't in "best working condition", if we went by that...well, Windows would be in trouble, Linux would be in trouble, OS X would be in trouble, every game ever made would be in trouble, etc.

My point is that Beth know that they can just port the game across and let modders do the work better than they really would end up doing it anyway, how is this bad? The game gets mods. It gets good. It still is good from day one, just probably not "Holy crap, I wet my pants" good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechati View Post
This wouldn't be necessary to such an extent if the developer did his job properly.
That's true of anything though, not just Skyrim or Console ports, how many custom fixes for Windows do people have? If MS did the entire file permissions stuff right, AVs would be no-where nearly as necessary as they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechati View Post
I would rather wait a month or to and have a game polished as much as possible. What is a month or two compared to years of game development anyways...
Profits...That's what. And like I said, even if Bethesda sat there polishing the game for a year after it was actually done, the finished product would still pale in comparison to a version without the polish but with mods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechati View Post
This is sad that all games nowadays are dumb down so they fit the "biggest market". How are we going to improve/advance if all that is being released recently is at best mediocre?
Except it isn't? There's plenty of great games coming out, it's just PC gamers tend to grasp the bad ones and hold them up as examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechati View Post
Then maybe this genre is not really for You?
I like the genre, like I said its great when it speeds up, IMO Oblivion is near perfect with it (Although stats should have a bit more to do with how good you are), but unlike a lot of people here, I'm open minded to "dumbing the game down" as to be honest, grinding my skills up or trying to get past a certain area for the 150th time without dying is not fun for me, even if the game has been dumbed down.

That said, there is a limit to dumbing down (Eg. Simcity Societies is WAY too far in the "hurr durr" direction) but this being Bethesda, I doubt they'll pass that limit or even get close to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post
I would just like to point out to the people saying Oblivion and the 3D Fallout games being buggy as hell on PC, that they were buggy as hell on consoles and PCs alike. It was more the engine's fault. Hence why they developed a completely new engine which looks better and I'm sure runs a hell of a lot better.
Exactly, people need to remember the Fallout New Vegas engine is essentially a heavily modded Morrowind engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
It wasn't the engine that was the problem. It was the piss poor coding, especially on FO3. FO3 to this day has memory leaks galore and other issues that were never patched after the market release.

The buginess of FO3 was the fault of the developer, not the engine in and of itself. Replacing the engine won't do squat I predict. Fallout; New Vegas uses the Gamebryo engine too and it has far less issues...because the dev actually put in the effort.
...And where do the memory leaks come from? What does the buggy coding affect?

The game engine. And Fallout NV had an updated version of Gamebryo, plus, the bugs were very iffy about if they'd appear a lot of the time, I never got any CTDs apart from mods in Fallout 3 and NV, but Oblivion I got them before SI.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sausageson View Post
Have you seen the game? It looks amazing, out of all the openworld games this game is definitely the best looking and just because it doesnt have some arbitrary dx feature doesnt make it ugly. With mods the game will look even better.

Also Bethesda isnt promising anything, they have been coming forward honestly saying this game is being developed with consoles in mind, unlike crysis devs. I think they already said dx11 will not be implemented.
They said minor DX11 stuff will be implemented if I recall correctly, and I honestly agree with you, the game looks absolutely amazing so far, I was planning to play through Morrowind and Oblivion again when it comes out to give time for the bugs to be found and for mods to be made, but so far it looks like it will be just as good they were without mods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headcracker View Post
But, at the same time, i predict a buggy as hell game. I will have far less trouble playing it on PS3 + no money going to Bethesda. I can live without mods for one game. . .
Are you serious? If it is a buggy game, it will be a buggy game on all consoles, remember how many times the DLC screwed up on the consoles or the PC?

Seriously, the CTDs on PCs were the only PC specific issues if I recall correctly and even they were matched by console specific bugs due to you being able to fix bugged out quests, etc.

Getting it on console for an "easier experience" is not a good idea, I did it for Fallout 3. (Mainly because I lost my main save on PC when I formatted by accident and I got a free copy) I ended up with more bugs and worst of all, not a simple "Oh, restart the game" type fix either, more of a "Oh balls, now this quest line is buggered." which usually you can't fix without the console.
    
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post #253 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by headcracker View Post
Well, 1.

FO3 is one of my favourite RPG's ever but, my god was it a nightmare dealing with all the bugs. Some days were very stressful lol.
Your aware that by all definitions Fallout 3 was a port right?
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post #254 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by sausageson View Post
Yes I know consoles have piracy but its not nearly the same scale at all.
Hardcore PC users will not admit to this point. They see things pretty black & white. Because piracy can happen on consoles, that means it happens just as much in their mind.

I really wonder, if they ran a development house, would they be so quick to spend their time developing it for PC. Focusing on PC is a money loser straight away, plain and simple.
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post #255 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
It wasn't the engine that was the problem. It was the piss poor coding, especially on FO3. FO3 to this day has memory leaks galore and other issues that were never patched after the market release.

The buginess of FO3 was the fault of the developer, not the engine in and of itself. Replacing the engine won't do squat I predict. Fallout; New Vegas uses the Gamebryo engine too and it has far less issues...because the dev actually put in the effort.
If by far less.. do you mean the absence of the black stretchy graphical glitch? Because that's the only one I have yet to experience in Fallout: New Vegas that was in Fallout 3. All the bugs with creatures and items falling through the ground and blocks not properly loading are still there. It's obviously not an easy fix. A company isn't going to let a game be buggy as hell due to lazyness or poor coding. If they were that lazy.. we wouldn't be getting games that are as vast and immersive as the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games. They are by far some of the most massive games I have ever played, allowing me to invest hundreds of hours into them without so much as getting bored. I would really like to see other developers attempt what they do.. I really would.
post #256 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takayanagi-Phoenix View Post
Hardcore PC users will not admit to this point. They see things pretty black & white. Because piracy can happen on consoles, that means it happens just as much in their mind.

I really wonder, if they ran a development house, would they be so quick to spend their time developing it for PC. Focusing on PC is a money loser straight away, plain and simple.
Thats not true

Some games on PC are naturally successful, any Blizzard game or Battlefield. This is because these games have MP and are MP focused which makes pirating them pointless.

However I cannot think of any big SP games in recent memory that have been built with the PC in mind, even the Witcher 2 devs have been showcasing its 360 playability before the game even released, the gameplay has been "dumbed down" from the Witcher 1 and its an entirely better game because of it.


All this hate is just because Bethesda has come out and said we are developing it for consoles in mind. People were jaw dropped at the e3 footage now their all raging. Then posting silly comments such as this game is not worth my time despite it not even coming out yet. Then silly comments such as the Witcher 2 is a proper PC game and this is not.

FYI
-TW2 doesnt have dx11
-Witcher 2 has console radial menus and can be played with a 360 controller
-TW2 is dumbed down from the first, yet still a much better and tougher game

However because it was a PC exclusive (at the time) and they said they developed it primarily for the PC people ate it up. When they showed the game being played on a 360 controller I immediatly knew it was coming to 360, but some people will bury their heads in the sand. So despite these console port characteristics it still looks great, plays great and was an awesome game. No one is asking you to buy Skyrim but at least wait until the game comes out and we know more info such as the inclusion of mod tools.
Edited by sausageson - 6/9/11 at 8:58am
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post #257 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by sausageson View Post
Thats not true

Some games on PC are naturally successful, any Blizzard game or Battlefield. This is because these games have MP and are MP focused which makes pirating them pointless.

However I cannot think of any big SP games in recent memory that have been built with the PC in mind, even the Witcher 2 devs have been showcasing its 360 playability before the game even released, the gameplay has been "dumbed down" from the Witcher 1 and its an entirely better game because of it.
The Witcher 2 is not 'dumbed down' from The Witcher 1, what are you smoking? It's simply different gameplay. One of the biggest gripes about TW1 was it's user interface and the combat. The developers took the feedback they received and made a better product. Simple.

You can't compare a small developer like CDProject to Bethesda. Those guys have a much, much smaller budget to work with and still churned out a fantastic game. Plus, they actually listen to the PC community and have made changes to the game based on that feedback. Right off the bat! Within a couple weeks of launch!

You wanna know what makes BFBC2 popular on the PC? Great gameplay and DX 11! Yes that's right, it's actually one of the few games that utilize some of the power of DX 11 GPUs. BF3 will have DX 11 capabilities which makes it a must have on day 1.

Edit: you know it's sad when a game like LoTRO has DX 11 support (and looks fantastic with it enabled) but yet, AAA developers like Bethesda can't be bothered to include it (full support) on a game coming out just before 2012.
Edited by tout - 6/9/11 at 9:07am
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post #258 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post
The Witcher 2 is not 'dumbed down' from The Witcher 1, what are you smoking? It's simply different gameplay. One of the biggest gripes about TW1 was it's user interface and the combat. The developers took the feedback they received and made a better product. Simple.

You can't compare a small developer like CDProject to Bethesda. Those guys have a much, much smaller budget to work with and still churned out a fantastic game. Plus, they actually listen to the PC community and have made changes to the game based on that feedback. Right off the bat! Within a couple weeks of launch!

You wanna know what makes BFBC2 popular on the PC? Great gameplay and DX 11! Yes that's right, it's actually one of the few games that utilize some of the power of DX 11 GPUs. BF3 will have DX 11 capabilities which makes it a must have on day 1.
Double standards all around!
post #259 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammo2k5 View Post
Am i the only person who seen this coming when they said primarily DX9 support?
Nope, not just you.
FU Bethesda. I'm not buying your game.
No way I'm paying for a game based on 2002 tech.

It's not just bad graphics. I'll probably run like **** and be plagued with issues like most console ports. Not to mention a good possibility of horrible controls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T3chAdd1ct View Post
I guess this is an invitation for us to bootleg the game?
Looks it. Crytek's story is repeating all over again.
Edited by zalbard - 6/9/11 at 9:21am
post #260 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by sausageson View Post
Thats not true

Some games on PC are naturally successful, any Blizzard game or Battlefield. This is because these games have MP and are MP focused which makes pirating them pointless.

However I cannot think of any big SP games in recent memory that have been built with the PC in mind, even the Witcher 2 devs have been showcasing its 360 playability before the game even released, the gameplay has been "dumbed down" from the Witcher 1 and its an entirely better game because of it.


All this hate is just because Bethesda has come out and said we are developing it for consoles in mind. People were jaw dropped at the e3 footage now their all raging. Then posting silly comments such as this game is not worth my time despite it not even coming out yet. Then silly comments such as the Witcher 2 is a proper PC game and this is not.

FYI
-TW2 doesnt have dx11
-Witcher 2 has console radial menus and can be played with a 360 controller
-TW2 is dumbed down from the first, yet still a much better and tougher game

However because it was a PC exclusive (at the time) and they said they developed it primarily for the PC people ate it up. When they showed the game being played on a 360 controller I immediatly knew it was coming to 360, but some people will bury their heads in the sand. So despite these console port characteristics it still looks great, plays great and was an awesome game. No one is asking you to buy Skyrim but at least wait until the game comes out and we know more info such as the inclusion of mod tools.
Yes, some PC games are very successful. But as a general rule of thumb, a developer will make more money marketing a game for consoles (if it's good enough that people want to buy it that is). There are more people playing games on consoles than there are on PCs, and additionally they can be lazier as they are working on a single piece of hardware, not working out how to get it to work on the various different graphics cards and processors.

One other point I want to touch in is that of games being 'dumbed down'. Maybe it's just my opinion, but it seems to me that it's the direction that a lot of gamers have pushed for. I've always said that games can't and shouldn't be movies, that too many voiced cutscenes takes over a game and ruins it in the end. It's because the developer ends up spending too much time trying to capture the atmosphere of a movie and making the cutscenes look good, and less time actually focusing on what matters.

I say gamers have pushed it in this direction because I know so many people who go on about how much they love their games to have more movie like cutscenes. I hate to use such a cliche phrase, but you can't have your cake and eat it (except under rare circumstances that a true classic is created).
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