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[BF3Blog]Battlefield 3 to have 3 times as much DLC as Bad Company 2 - Page 13

post #121 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98uk;13842517 
Trust me, knowing developers at DICE myself, I know the cost has risen, but game prices haven't. Profits have stabilised or increased for good games because of DLC, special editions game packs, deals with websites for betas etc...

Also, what is DLC? Downloadable content. That's all it is, things you pay for to download. Who's to say DICE won't release an expansion pack as DLC. They did with BC2: Vietnam, they did with Euro Forces and Armoured Fury... I suspect they will again.

To call Vietnam an expansion pack is offensive to the memory of the last standing expansion packs. Expansion packs include singleplayer content, something Vietnam was devoid of and was my major complaint.

I'm taking Games Programming at University next year, so I'm under no illusion where games development is concerned. My opinion on DLC won't change.
    
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post #122 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian;13842543 
To call Vietnam an expansion pack is offensive to the memory of the last standing expansion packs. Expansion packs include singleplayer content, something Vietnam was devoid of and was my major complaint.

I'm taking Games Programming at University next year, so I'm under no illusion where games development is concerned. My opinion on DLC won't change.

In an MP orientated game, I don't believe an expansion pack requires SP elements. I personally loved BC2: Vietnam, even more so than the original game. I and many others, would be happy to buy a similar DLC pack again and again. New maps, new guns, new weapons... it was a lot more than other games offer!

Also, just because you're doing games programming doesn't mean you understand the business behind it wink.gif In fact, you'll find that is one major, major criticism by companies on very technical orientated degrees (E.G. Com Sci and Games development), they understand the technical stuff, but have absolutely no concept of real world business or how things work.

My friend did games development and Southampton Solent and complained at the complete lack of anything related to the project management or business aspect of games design. He is now an Android games developer smile.gif
post #123 of 173
WOW! THREE TIMES AS MUCH! I think I need a glass of water and a chair to sit and calm myself down.
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post #124 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98uk;13842564 
In an MP orientated game, I don't believe an expansion pack requires SP elements. I personally loved BC2: Vietnam, even more so than the original game. I and many others, would be happy to buy a similar DLC pack again and again. New maps, new guns, new weapons... it was a lot more than other games offer!

Also, just because you're doing games programming doesn't mean you understand the business behind it wink.gif In fact, you'll find that is one major, major criticism by companies on very technical orientated degrees (E.G. Com Sci and Games development), they understand the technical stuff, but have absolutely no concept of real world business or how things work.

My friend did games development and Southampton Solent and complained at the complete lack of anything related to the project management or business aspect of games design. He is now an Android games developer smile.gif

I have friends that work at Rockstar Leeds and an A-level in business wink.gif I never said that I don't understand it. I just don't like it. Considering the record profits boasted by all major publishers and the fact that games out sell movies, massively, and that movies have a higher budget. I think it's safe to say that games don't actually need to cost more.

The problem will probably never go away for me. I'm never going to like DLC. I'm just hoping to earn enough money to not care about an £11 map pack ever once in a while.

I also grew up in a different time (it's sometimes very easy to spot others like me from afar) where once you bought a game, that was it, you had the game. Any more in the same vein had to be an expansion, or entirely separate game, which commanded a singleplayer, and usually, multiplayer aspect. This concept of buying half a game, and then buying the other half when the publishers think sales are dwindling is alien to me. I don't like it because I see it as a penny grab. The very reason publishers are pushing developers and signing DLC into contracts is because people like yourself will buy it again and again, regardless of the price or content. That, for me, is starting to ruin games. No longer can I buy a game and be done with it, not have to keep buying content for the game to keep on top. It's also the same for these play for free models. I don't like them one bit. Why should those who have the most money have the advantage? It's bad enough the world exists around that kind of model, it shouldn't infest its way into games. Buy a game, be done with it. Any extras should be free.


I also stand by my comment of let someone else pay for these packs. Why not have sponsorships on DLC so that it can be free? Like NVidia and others did with the COD4 map packs (of which I was extremely proud of the PC gaming community for standing up and saying they'd point blank refuse to buy the content, thus it was released for free. More of that, please).
    
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post #125 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian;13842625 
I have friends that work at Rockstar Leeds and an A-level in business wink.gif I never said that I don't understand it. I just don't like it. Considering the record profits boasted by all major publishers and the fact that games out sell movies, massively, and that movies have a higher budget. I think it's safe to say that games don't actually need to cost more.

An A-Level in business? Lol. Anyway, there's lots of things I don't like, one of them being cornflakes, yet they won't go away tongue.gif Businesses are there to make money, not keep you and I happy. If they can find a way to increase their revenues, they will. It's quite simple really.

I understand your points, but they come across to me as rather old manish, the sort of person that sits on the park bench and harks on about "how it was better in my day". The world moves on, new revenue streams open up, the way we buy and sell things changes. I for one like DLC more than the old school you buy game and that's it. I like seeing more content, even if it costs.

I can afford to buy DLC, it's no skin off my nose. All it means is more support over the years. I like being able to expand a single game and spread the cost over time. I like the option of saying," ooh, I want those maps", or, "nah, I don't need that". It gives me flexibility. At the end of the day, it's us, the consumer that is in power. We decide a companies fate by either buying or not buying their product. If something is bad value, it won't sell. The success of DLC has proven that there is a market, people are willing to spend money and this will not change.
Quote:
I also stand by my comment of let someone else pay for these packs. Why not have sponsorships on DLC so that it can be free? Like NVidia and others did with the COD4 map packs (of which I was extremely proud of the PC gaming community for standing up and saying they'd point blank refuse to buy the content, thus it was released for free. More of that, please).

Yes, I would like to see greater sponsorship... but you have to question the value of it. Intel sponsored the build of "Tampa Highway" in BF2. I'm not sure I could see exactly where they got value for money from that, but hey.
post #126 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98uk;13842639 
An A-Level in business? Lol. Anyway, there's lots of things I don't like, one of them being cornflakes, yet they won't go away tongue.gif Businesses are there to make money, not keep you and I happy. If they can find a way to increase their revenues, they will. It's quite simple really.

I understand your points, but they come across to me as rather old manish, the sort of person that sits on the park bench and harks on about "how it was better in my day". The world moves on, new revenue streams open up, the way we buy and sell things changes. I for one like DLC more than the old school you buy game and that's it. I like seeing more content, even if it costs.

I can afford to buy DLC, it's no skin off my nose. All it means is more support over the years. I like being able to expand a single game and spread the cost over time. I like the option of saying," ooh, I want those maps", or, "nah, I don't need that". It gives me flexibility. At the end of the day, it's us, the consumer that is in power. We decide a companies fate by either buying or not buying their product. If something is bad value, it won't sell. The success of DLC has proven that there is a market, people are willing to spend money and this will not change.



Yes, I would like to see greater sponsorship... but you have to question the value of it. Intel sponsored the build of "Tampa Highway" in BF2. I'm not sure I could see exactly where they got value for money from that, but hey.

Why "lol" at my business a-level comment? You were attempting to school me in how the business world works. And I keep telling you it's not that I don't understand, I just don't like it or want it to be that way. I got a C in that class frown.gif I'm no Alan Sugar, but I'm not ignorant to how things work.

This is a discussion board, and as such, I'm discussing why I don't like DLC.

I'm also 23, not 46. I've seen the advent of Steam and it's success in the PC market. I called XBL back in 2003 as a potential big winner amongst gamers (back when people complained at the subscription price, which, actually, is one of my complaints, these days!). You make out like, perhaps, I'm adverse to changes. I just think DLC is a scam as it is majorly overpriced, and pretty much most games with DLC have suspicious reasons as to why there can't be mod tools. Why give gamers mod tools when you want to make them pay for your mods?

Vietnam was good for £5 when it was on sale. The SPECACT kit was worth while when that was half the current price. The Just Cause 2 DLC was priced spectacularly well. It was around 50p for weapon packs and vehicle packs.

As for advertising. I don't see the point to it at all, but big corporations seem to think it's an excellent idea. If that leads to free DLC then so be it.

DLC and exclusivity can kiss my arse. I want no part in it and I don't look favourably on those that do.
    
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post #127 of 173
Well, whether you like it or not, it ain't changing. There are thousands of others like me that enjoy well priced DLC and I will continue to purchase new content. I have the money to do so and with that, companies will continue to supply it. Welcome to the new world.

EDIT: Also, I lol'd at A-level business, because if it was like my classes, it taught you nothing but concepts... concepts that are hugely non-relevant to real life. I got an A in it, but found real experience working in business was a real eye opener. I work in Central London now in advertising and very little of what I learnt at school fits!
Edited by 98uk - 6/12/11 at 4:57am
post #128 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98uk;13842734 
Well, whether you like it or not, it ain't changing. There are thousands of others like me that enjoy well priced DLC and I will continue to purchase new content. I have the money to do so and with that, companies will continue to supply it. Welcome to the new world.

EDIT: Also, I lol'd at A-level business, because if it was like my classes, it taught you nothing but concepts... concepts that are hugely non-relevant to real life. I got an A in it, but found real experience working in business was a real eye opener. I work in Central London now in advertising and very little of what I learnt at school fits!

I'm sure people said the same thing about SecuROM and the likes back in the day. Change does happen. Publishers will know, if they sell 1 million copies, and only 100,000 people buy the DLC, that it doesn't work ( as well as expected). You are, and I'll bet you agree, in no position to say what's going to change and what isn't. We're just in no position to say that kind of thing.

You're starting to sound like the "I like it so shut up" kind of people, much like Vhati. Yet, when COD4 announced map packs, for a price, the internet was in uproar over it. Mainly, PC gamers saying they weren't paying for it. And, when release time came about, sure enough we had to wait longer (for no valid reason) but the map packs came for free. Point is: changes can happen and people being vocal can make a difference. So, sure enough, while you're happy to pay, you should be happier that people want you to have that content for free, or cheaper than it currently is!

I hear you on the Business studies courses. I wasn't taught how cruel the business "world" can be nor was I taught that everyone higher up in a company simply BS'd their way there and usually have less qualifications than the people below!
    
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post #129 of 173
EA is spending $100 million on advertising? How do I get in on a piece of that?
post #130 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhati;13822920 
no, that is not what it means. Not even close.


They practically announced the Witcher 2 expansion before the witcher 2 was released, does that mean they cut it? no it doesnt.


The fact is that just as much planning needs to go into the design and production of DLC as it does for the game itself. They need a team, they need a production roadmap, and they need to have ideas.

A game is practically wrapped up months before launch, where content has been finalized and then its on to polishing, and bug fixing, and everything that gets the game ready for launch. What are guys who model guns, buildings, etc suppose to do during that time. Guess what, If there is a roadmap for DLC in place, those guys can go straight into making the maps and the guns, and vehicles for it.

Nope. What YOU said doesn't even come close.

Witcher 2 is a bad example because the game was pretty much finished before they even decided on the publisher, which DIDN'T have any creative control or the overall outcome of the game (plus it is an RPG, and it didn't follow yearly schedules for development/release and developers of Witcher took as much time as they needed to make it instead of churning it out because they "had to"). EA owns DICE and are only interested in the profit (they own the biggest cash cow franchises like FIFA, NFS, Sims, NBA etc), they churn out game releases that follow yearly schedules and couldn't care less (about their "fans" nor their views), especially for the length of their games; also they have access to and full control over any game aspects they want to change and can cut it back as much as they please. They already stated they "declared war" on Activision's cash cow Call of Duty with BF3 and at this moment in time, COD charges ridiculous amounts on their ripoff DLC and gets away with it, as loads of people buy it on consoles at least. I expect EA to do the same, if you disagree say so, but until it is released no-one can predict this. My guess is, cutting down the final game is exactly what EA will do, until it is released and you have proof, don't call "wrong" on my view just yet.
    
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