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Review of the CM Spawn,Xai,Microsoft IME3.0 ,DeathAdder respawn[3500] and KinzuAdder - Page 6

post #51 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol;14310665 
I tested Spawn with all 3 fw on black mousepad (QcK clone). 800 CPI setting isn't performing well on all of them. The best setting is 1800 CPI, which is btw closer to 1600 CPI as far as I measured it. Notice on fw 31 max speed is ~1.2 m/s on my completely black mousepad - unplayable for me. Second in terms of tracking is 3500 CPI, but it's jittering slightly. I don't use speed so high and I haven't yet seen a mouse without any jitter at ~3500 CPI, so I don't mind and don't care. 800 CPI is jittering with any fw, but only at certain angles, diagonal movement mostly. It's hard to understand for me, how it's possible to screw the lowest setting, it could be interpolated from 1800 with ease, and should perform exactly the same way. As I'm low sens player I consider haveing flawless low CPI setting important. So far the only reasonable solution is to set 1800 CPI and lower Windows' speed setting to 3/11 resulting in something about 400-450 CPI. Come on CM, why custom interpolated CPI settings aren't possible in your software? Evan A4Tech have done this pretty well except lying about max CPI of course tongue.gif .

I have not heard of this issue at all with the new f/w sets. Its possible you may have a faulty spawn, lens could be slightly off. As for interpolated CPI, we tried to steer clear of it, we were warned from Avago this sensor is not meant to use anything lower than 1800. After 2 months of rigorous testing, we finally got all the kinks out of 800 CPI. This was not an easy task I assure you. If you could post the jitter results it would be helpful for me to try and pinpoint the problem, if we can determine its the mouse we will get it replaced ASAP.
post #52 of 73
Maybe I can't speak English well enough, but I'm not dumb tongue.gif .

If the lens is faulty, then why 1800 CPI works like a charm? And why 450CPI or 900 CPI interpolated through Windows driver is fine too? tongue.gif

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your work as a company, and yours as a person as well - really quick answer. Spawn is very good and affordable mouse, with some work it could be even better.

Btw A4Tech's anti-vibrate solution is in my opinion the best way to reduce LOD so far. It's cheap, works well and doesn't have negative influence on traction or speed (as custom lens or fw solutions). If only switch position could be near the sensor...

Oh almost forgot, fw for image below is 32.
Edited by Glymbol - 7/22/11 at 3:14pm
post #53 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol;14311010 
Maybe I can't speak English well enough, but I'm not dumb tongue.gif .

If the lens is faulty, then why 1800 CPI works like a charm? And why 450CPI or 900 CPI interpolated through Windows driver is fine too? tongue.gif

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your work as a company, and yours as a person as well - really quick answer. Spawn is very good and affordable mouse, with some work it could be even better.

Btw A4Tech's anti-vibrate solution is in my opinion the best way to reduce LOD so far. It's cheap, works well and doesn't have negative influence on traction or speed (as custom lens or fw solutions). If only switch position could be near the sensor...

Oh almost forgot, fw for image below is 32.

may sounds funny but I just set the spawn too 800dpi and kinzuadder to 900 and both was jittering in specific angle (kinda zig-zag movment)..
I dont think its noticeable ingame, but since my deathadder 3.5g I've used 1800dpi and 3win-sens...so thats the reason I wont notice anything..

Anyways, I cant found any a4tech optical gaming mouse, not in my country and not in ebay..any suggestion????
I dont really want to test zowie EC series since I need to import it and the buttons, glossy and scroll-wheel make it no-go for me..
and the MiCo shape is far too small for me.

but so far happy with my spawn (@1800dpi, 3win-sens, raw input program ingame)

arghh *cross fingers to steelseries 1.1 with no right buttons and flawlessy sensor / plam shape with 3090 / any 3060 sensor with reduced LoD and decent build quality.
Edited by avinin1 - 7/22/11 at 3:47pm
post #54 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol;14310665 
I tested Spawn with all 3 fw on black mousepad (QcK clone). 800 CPI setting isn't performing well on all of them.

The best setting is 1800 CPI, which is btw closer to 1600 CPI as far as I measured it. It's really good, nothing to add. Notice on fw 31 max speed is ~1.2 m/s on my completely black mousepad - unplayable for me. What's the point of ultra low LOD when there's negative acceleration during fast turning?

No two sensors are exactly the same when it comes to total distance in tracking.
Quote:
The 800 CPI is jittering with any fw, but only at certain angles, diagonal movement mostly. It's hard to understand for me, how it's possible to screw the lowest setting.

With the ADNS-3090, you have work down instead of up like a majority of optical sensors. It's a lot harder to code and work with. Native Sensor resolutions are 1800 and 3500.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol;14311010 

If the lens is faulty, then why 1800 CPI works like a charm?

51476-da-dpicomp.png

Should be the same story. The sensor is practically based off the 3668. Just be aware that Razer uses their own firmware and a IR optical lens opposed to the traditional Red LED.
Quote:
And why 450CPI or 900 CPI interpolated through Windows driver is fine too? tongue.gif

450/900 CPI? Are you talking about the Deathadder? If so it isn't interpolated. I can plug the mouse in and use 450/900 without drivers after setting it up on a other computer. Granted Max Performance is lower.

Quote:
Oh almost forgot, fw for image below is 32.

It's a long shot, but try testing the mouse without drivers if you haven't already. A lot of Avago Optical sensors don't play well with software.
post #55 of 73
Is the interpolation on the 800 dpi setting really that bad with it? I would ideally like to play with 800 dpi and get perfect tracking which the 1800 dpi apparently does but I hate the negative acceleration which high dpi settings get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol;14310665 
I tested Spawn with all 3 fw on black mousepad (QcK clone). 800 CPI setting isn't performing well on all of them.

The best setting is 1800 CPI, which is btw closer to 1600 CPI as far as I measured it. It's really good, nothing to add. Notice on fw 31 max speed is ~1.2 m/s on my completely black mousepad - unplayable for me. What's the point of ultra low LOD when there's negative acceleration during fast turning?

Second in terms of tracking is 3500 CPI, but it's jittering slightly. I don't use speed so high and I haven't yet seen a mouse without any jitter at ~3500 CPI, so I don't mind and don't care.

The 800 CPI is jittering with any fw, but only at certain angles, diagonal movement mostly. It's hard to understand for me, how it's possible to screw the lowest setting. It could be interpolated from 1800 with ease, and should perform exactly the same way. As I'm low sens player I consider having flawless-tracking low-CPI-setting important. So far the only reasonable solution is to set 1800 CPI and lower Windows' speed setting to 3/11 resulting in something about 400-450 CPI. Come on CM, why custom interpolated CPI settings aren't possible in your software? Even A4Tech have done this pretty well except lies about max CPI of course tongue.gif .

How did you determine that it's closer to 1600 dpi than 1800? Also what mousepad are you using?
Edited by Pyroh - 7/22/11 at 6:44pm
    
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post #56 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit;14312271 
51476-da-dpicomp.png

Should be the same story. The sensor is practically based off the 3668. Just be aware that Razer uses their own firmware and a IR optical lens opposed to the traditional Red LED.

That graph is very outdated.
It's from 2007 i think, and later firmwares of the DA tracked about the same at all DPI-settings, at least from version 1.27 up to now.
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post #57 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit;14312271 
With the ADNS-3090, you have work down instead of up like a majority of optical sensors. It's a lot harder to code and work with. Native Sensor resolutions are 1800 and 3500.
1/2 or 1/4 * 1800 the same way as in Windows, it isn't so hard wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit;14312271 
450/900 CPI? Are you talking about the Deathadder? If so it isn't interpolated. I can plug the mouse in and use 450/900 without drivers after setting it up on a other computer. Granted Max Performance is lower.
I meant Windows setting 3/11 or 4/11 and 1800 CPI. Spawn works great that way, but it would be a lot more comfortable to just use Spawn's CPI buttons. Also I can plug my A4Tech to any computer and without drivers it remembers last used polling rate, 2 profiles for button assignments and up to 5 custom X Y independent CPI settings. CPI are interpolated of course, but as long as it's hardware CPI divided by 2 - no harm done smile.gif . A4Tech software is quite good there's even portable version, which works without installing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit;14312271 
It's a long shot, but try testing the mouse without drivers if you haven't already. A lot of Avago Optical sensors don't play well with software.
Good idea, I'll try it on another computer with default settings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyroh;14312557 
How did you determine that it's closer to 1600 dpi than 1800? Also what mousepad are you using?
I'm using logger from this thread: http://www.overclock.net/mice/854100-ocn-mouse-sensor-reference-performance-sheet-7.html#post11973853.
1. Set everything.
2. Start logger (by keyboard).
3. Move mouse left/right or up/down for 254mm.
4. Stop logger (CTRL+Break).
5. Import log file to OOo Calc (drag it over).
6. Sum all X or Y movement, divide it by 10, the result is measured CPI.
You can do it for X and Y separately, or repeat whole process x times to get more precise result. I did it 4 times, result is 1750 CPI, so my first measurement was wrong. There is ~1800 CPI.

My mousepad is A4Tech X7-300MP. It's surface is almost the same as QcK, dimensions: 437x350x3mm, price in my country ~5$.
Edited by Glymbol - 7/23/11 at 7:47am
post #58 of 73
Not seeing this jitter with my Spawn. I'm always using 800 cpi at 500 Hz Polling Rate, and Windows Pointer Sensitivity is 4/11 (0.5 multiplier). See pic. My mousepad is a Mionix Sargas 460 (black, cloth).
    
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post #59 of 73
It may be something with polling rate the mousepad or both. Please try drawing diagonal lines slowly with 800 CPI 6/11 250Hz acceleration off angle snapping off. At 1000Hz 800CPI is fine, but it consumes to much CPU resources for my taste. I turned mousepad 45° to see if it changes someting and it does. I'll borrow and try different mousepad tomorrow.
post #60 of 73
Tried again 800 cpi, 250 Hz, Windows Sensitivity at 6/11. I don't see much difference really. The Windows pointer sensitivity at my usual 4/11 may be masking a 1-pixel jitter(?); it would need to jitter 2 counts to get a pixel's worth of movement in Paint. Maybe a difference in mousepads, mine vs. yours?
    
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  • Review of the CM Spawn,Xai,Microsoft IME3.0 ,DeathAdder respawn[3500] and KinzuAdder
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