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[hardcoreware]AMD vs Intel: Phenom II X4 980 and X6 1100T Take on Core i5 - Page 9  

post #81 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
For the 100th time, no it isn't any more high end and no, it doesn't improve performance.



The only thing it improves is performance in applications that can't even use one core fully (benchmarks, zip/unzip runs and other "benchmarks" in general) and that get "fooled" by the fake threads because they can't even use the cores on the chip to their full extent.
With those numbers and how HT can impact the performance of the CPU, why do people still use the "HT is better than anything else out there" statement over and over? Is it just a bad case of E-peen or something? I know there have been volumes of arguments about this subject, but when you look at the raw numbers HT is just a different way that Intel employs the CPU to work through tasks. AMD works at the problem differently.
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post #82 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono View Post
With those numbers and how HT can impact the performance of the CPU, why do people still use the "HT is better than anything else out there" statement over and over? Is it just a bad case of E-peen or something? I know there have been volumes of arguments about this subject, but when you look at the raw numbers HT is just a different way that Intel employs the CPU to work through tasks. AMD works at the problem differently.
Too many people buy into the e-peen benchmark advantage hype, that if it adds some points in some benchmark, it must mean games run faster, when in fact they don't. Intel's marketing department sure did a bang up job at convincing so many people that it's somewhat an alternative to having more cores when it isn't and never will be better than a real core...
Edited by Am* - 6/12/11 at 9:02am
    
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post #83 of 111
i'm pretty sure that GAMES do not benefit from HT and almost all of them don't benefit from the 2 extra cores of any x6. i thought everybody know this.
and by the way, bassplayer stated specifically 4+ threaded applications. those games do not even use 4 threads. all 4 of them are only dual threaded.

as for things that WILL benefit from HT:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i...600k-review/15
http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i...600k-review/14
notice the performance gap between the non HT i5 and the HT i7.
some of the gap is due to 0.1 GHz higher frequency and 2 MB more L3 cache, but most of the gap is due to hyperthreading.
if you do folding@home, hyperthreading is going to up your ppd by a lot. ask any folder.
Edited by james8 - 6/12/11 at 9:13am
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post #84 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
Too many people buy into the e-peen benchmark advantage hype, that if it adds some points in some benchmark, it must mean games run faster, when in fact they don't. Intel's marketing department sure did a bang up job at convincing so many people that it's somewhat an alternative to having more cores when it isn't and never will be better than a real core...
Well, doing a little digging I found this little article.

http://news.cnet.com/Intel-hyperthre..._3-961495.html

Even AMD used technologies that Digital developed, but it seems that Intel has a habit of taking tech and "getting it to market", and taking all the credit, just like in the case of 3-D transistors for CPUs. These CPU comparison charts are good and all, but in the end we as consumers need to weed through all the marketing mubojumbo and figure out what will work best for us. I think the epeen issue is a human reaction to the seeing numbers that "look" better on paper rather than in real world use.
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post #85 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8 View Post
i'm pretty sure that GAMES do not benefit from HT and almost all of them don't benefit from the 2 extra cores of any x6. i thought everybody know this.

as for things that WILL benefit from HT:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i...600k-review/15
notice the performance gap between the non HT i5 and the HT i7.
some of the gap is due to 0.1 GHz higher frequency and 2 MB more L3 cache, but most of the gap is due to hyperthreading.
if you do folding@home, hyperthreading is going to up your ppd by a lot. ask any folder.
I think the folding SMP programs now are true physical cores only now, or they are heading that way so in the realm of folding with HT, I think that is going away. Also, a 4 core 8 thread Intel CPU was able to get the BIGADV work units because it "showed" 8 cores, but like I said I think the playing field will change once BD arrives with 8 physical cores, and I'm not worried how it stacks up against anything Intel has to offer. I'm happy with my X6, and even with my dual Opteron server. The real world is where it counts as far as performance goes, IMO, benchmarking is for people who only like to see numbers and then flaunt it to boost some egotistic desire.
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post #86 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8 View Post
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/...echnology.html
people afraid of intel "disabling" your cpu in the future please read. that thread is stickied at the top of this forum.



oh please. we are consumers. we are not professionals who can use even dual xeons 16 threads. how many consumer program (exluding stuffs like video editing and photo editing becuase let's face it, those are partly made for professional; and special apps such as benchmarks, distributed computing, etc) can take advantage of 6 cores?
everybody knows that games are among, if not is, the most intensive programs that run on a personal computer. if it performs better in games, it will perform better for 90% of all consumer level apps released.
it is almost impossible to completely stress 6 cores with normal consumer applications. heck pushing 4 cores is hard enough as it is.

how is it "retarded" that normal real life applications are used to compare cpu?
itunes is single threaded. a bunch of people i know ONLY use it to convert audios so they can use their ipods. are they all "retarted" for using such a badly coded apps?
put more objectively, would the x6 perform faster than the i5 in that consumer apps?

in fact, such comparisons were made in the high GHz dual core vs low GHz quad core era.
the dual-core wins most of the time. and at that time, it makes sense to buy the dual core because most games are still single threaded and only a few are dual threaded.
I'm just going to quote myself again, since no one bothers to actually read:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger.blue View Post
However, it is unlikely that someone buying a six-core would use it solely to run a single program at a time.

That being said, most OCNers would get no benefit from Thuban and should probably just go with Sandy Bridge, but other people out there would. It all depends on what your PC is going to be used for.
I know none of you multi-task and thus shouldn't bother with a six-core.
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post #87 of 111
Hyperthreading does improve performance in gaming as long as you have dual core CPU like core i3

Here check some gaming benchmarks
http://en.inpai.com.cn/doc/enshowcon...67&pageid=7877
http://www.behardware.com/articles/7...d-core-i3.html
post #88 of 111
Intel>AMD
post #89 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8 View Post
we are consumers. we are not professionals who can use even dual xeons 16 threads.
What? There are lots of people on this forum who depend on powerful computing to excel in the professional space. That's just ignorant.


Quote:
how many consumer program (exluding stuffs like video editing and photo editing becuase let's face it, those are partly made for professional; and special apps such as benchmarks, distributed computing, etc) can take advantage of 6 cores?
You should ask that question to architects, people who compile and build and generally anyone working with CAD/CAM or video processing.

Quote:
everybody knows that games are among, if not is, the most intensive programs that run on a personal computer.
Uh, no.

Quote:
if it performs better in games, it will perform better for 90% of all consumer level apps released.
No.

Quote:
it is almost impossible to completely stress 6 cores with normal consumer applications. heck pushing 4 cores is hard enough as it is.
Can you define "consumer applications", please?

Quote:
itunes is single threaded. a bunch of people i know ONLY use it to convert audios so they can use their ipods. are they all "retarted" for using such a badly coded apps?
It makes them ignorant. There are plenty of free-to-use (and paid!)applications for compressing audio.

Quote:
the dual-core wins most of the time. and at that time, it makes sense to buy the dual core because most games are still single threaded and only a few are dual threaded.
Wins at what? Your ability to see computing needs outside of your own is astoundingly bad.
post #90 of 111
^You are so right it isn't even funny! +rep
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