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[softpedia]Windows 8 Protogon File System in Action - Page 4

post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukefission View Post
Yeah I have 0-5% fragmentation on all of my drives and 3 haven`t been defragged ever, The other 2 at least a year ago
Interesting @ thread
wonder about backward compatibility
My one HD get's fragemented like a mother??
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post #32 of 59
Fragmentation depends a lot on how you use your drives.. similarly, I have a 1TB drive with only video content (movies, shows, etc.) but because I very rarely delete anything, it has almost zero fragmentation.

Anyway, whatever improvements Protogon (cool name!) will bring, they will be very welcome. Even though NTFS has seen improvement over the years, a fresh and performant file system would be awesome.
post #33 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAlex View Post
Finally. Wonder if Windows 8 will not cause fragmentation.
fragmentation is caused by writing 2+ things to the disk at the same time. it goes from having files A and B written as AAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBB(unfragmented) to AABBABABBABABBAAABB(fragmented), and by defragmenting, you are pulling all of the pieces of each file out to a new space on the disk, and writing them right next to each other.
post #34 of 59
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/...le-system/9567

another article on Protogon
Quote:
I asked Rafael Rivera of “WithinWindows” fame as to whether he’d heard of Protogon. He did a quick check and said that whatever Protogon is, it seems to incorporate database-like concepts like transactions, cursors, rows and tables. He said it includes a string, which seems to indicate Protogon could replace or at least emulate NTFS (the NT file system) as needed. Rivera also wondered if Protogon might be an update of the “Jet Blue” file system/extensible storage engine adapted for the latest version of Active Directory and Exchange Server.
hmm database like features?
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post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bojinglebells View Post
is that even as much of an issue anymore with the advent of solid state drives and the relegation of disc drives to storage of primarily large media files?



Vista x64 and 7 x64 can already do that, at least on UEFI systems...

I just built an HTPC for my sister using a single 3TB drive, a small partition for the OS/apps and a massive ~2.6TB partition for media files.
I wouldn't call it regulation....more people still use disk drives over SSDs. It won't be regulated until prices come down.
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post #36 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
Did I miss something? Did SSD's drop in price overwhelmingly?!
They're starting to hit the $1 per GB mark, who knows where we'll be by the time Windows 8 hits...at any rate my original point was more along the lines of why develop a new file system for disc drives when its seems pretty obvious that they're not the way of the future?

Besides, I wasn't asking about fragmentation on HDDs, I was talking about SSDs. On Vista and 7, Microsoft built in default automatic defragmentation routines, however unlike for HDDs, for SSDs that automatic defragmentation is turned off by default. In fact they go as far as to not even let you schedule routine defragmentation.

And it makes sense, as non-mechancial devices SSDs, AFAIK, really aren't prone to performance slow down with fragmentation. Of course maybe I am mistaken, which is why I asked the question to see if anyone could clarify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post
You make it sound like SSDs are all of a sudden affordable and that everyone has one in their PC.
Again, why would Microsoft optimize a new file system for disc drives when its completely obvious the technology is in its waning days? HDD manufacturers are dropping like flies, we're pretty much down to only the two biggest players remaining with Seagate and Western Digital, and it they don't seem to be trying very hard to compete with SSD but instead keep putting out ever larger and "greener" drives quite clearly meant for large file storage.

I really don't know. If you have the answer I would love to know, which, again, is why I asked the question in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven Dizzle View Post
I wouldn't call it regulation....more people still use disk drives over SSDs. It won't be regulated until prices come down.
I wouldn't call it regulation either, which is why I said relegation. There really isn't any denying it, more an more we see HDDs being built for sheer storage capacity and sequential transfer speeds, low heat/noise/power, and not blistering overall performance.
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post #37 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelthras View Post
I call bs. You cannot use fat or fat32 on drives larger then 32 gigs. Cool story tho bro.
I know for a fact FAT32 supports up to 2TB. Of course you cannot format above 32GB using Windows built in formatting software or fdisk. But Windows can read above 32GB for FAT32 filesystems.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314463 If you are interested.
post #38 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredicus View Post
What is fragmentation? Oh, the thing thats happens you you dont have a SSD ;o
Fragmentation still occurs on SSDs, but it just doesn't affect them like it does HDDs. Plus I can't afford one

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker22dallas View Post
fragmentation is caused by writing 2+ things to the disk at the same time. it goes from having files A and B written as AAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBB(unfragmented) to AABBABABBABABBAAABB(fragmented), and by defragmenting, you are pulling all of the pieces of each file out to a new space on the disk, and writing them right next to each other.
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post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bojinglebells View Post
They're starting to hit the $1 per GB mark, who knows where we'll be by the time Windows 8 hits...at any rate my original point was more along the lines of why develop a new file system for disc drives when its seems pretty obvious that they're not the way of the future?
SSD's aren't the way of the future, especially if depleted uranium platter drives become viable [aparently, 2 covalently bonded uranium atoms of a certain atomic weight can store a magnetic charge on their own].

And SSD's may have started approaching $1/GB, a regular platter drive is still significantly cheaper with more storage space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bojinglebells View Post
Besides, I wasn't asking about fragmentation on HDDs, I was talking about SSDs. On Vista and 7, Microsoft built in default automatic defragmentation routines, however unlike for HDDs, for SSDs that automatic defragmentation is turned off by default. In fact they go as far as to not even let you schedule routine defragmentation.
Fragmentation is a non-issue for a SSD. It doesn't matter where the pices of a file are when your average seek time is something like .2 ms vs ~4ms for platter drives. But platter drives still have more storage for less money, and the sole drawback is possible fragmentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bojinglebells View Post
Again, why would Microsoft optimize a new file system for disc drives when its completely obvious the technology is in its waning days? HDD manufacturers are dropping like flies, we're pretty much down to only the two biggest players remaining with Seagate and Western Digital, and it they don't seem to be trying very hard to compete with SSD but instead keep putting out ever larger and "greener" drives quite clearly meant for large file storage.
When SSD's start approaching the file capacity of current platter drives at a similar cost with greater flash cell durability, you might have a point. But ATM, SSD's are mostly a niche hobbyist component.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bojinglebells View Post
I wouldn't call it regulation either, which is why I said relegation. There really isn't any denying it, more an more we see HDDs being built for sheer storage capacity and sequential transfer speeds, low heat/noise/power, and not blistering overall performance.
But the performance gain is minimal at best unless you invest in a massive raid0 array. Even at $1/GB, SSD's are too cost prohibitive for the consumer market, and we ALL know thats what Windoze is aimed at.
post #40 of 59
Interesting.I'm curious when the BETA will be released.
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