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Fellow Web Designers, I need your opinions!

post #1 of 13
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So, I'm having an argument with a friend of mine....he's an idiot. I'll say that straight out. He's a .NET programmer who thinks he knows the job description and price of a web designer.

He has it in his head that a small business website design should go for 150-200$. Including any changes afterward, CSS, etc and soforth.

That's just one of my many quarrels with him...

Questions for you guys for my own personal reference in this debate:

1. Money up front. I usually go 50% up front; Your thoughts?
2. Average price for say...a wordpress theme? Full featured wordpress theme that is.
3. Logo design price for say...a distribution company?
4. Business card design price for a medium to large (20-100 employee) company?

Basic stuff.
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post #2 of 13
Depends largely on your skill and work history.

I've charged $500+ for logos, business cards, and other small stuff (which I know isn't astronomical, but it's not cheap either) but usually it's less than that. I know web designers who can get ~$10,000 for a completed website for a medium business. The most recent small website I know of one of my web designer friends doing was $3,600 for a fairly simple one-item sales site with a google cart checkout system.

Pricing for these types of things vary very widely. I even know some people who get permanent stipends off work where every purchase through the site they got X percentage of the sale and didn't charge much for the site at all.
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post #3 of 13
Long story short - you can get whatever you can convince them you're worth.
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post #4 of 13
$200 works out to be $15 per hour if you spend 13 hours on the project. 13 hours is not enough time to develop a medium sized business website without it being terrible or based on a template. If you are rolling logo design, templates and follow up into that, $200 is absurd.

He obviously doesn't value his time, or isn't aware of how much time can be involved in follow up work. I wouldn't even put that in a contract - that would be additional time per hour after 20 (or whatever) hours of content updating.

Or offer 5 hours of one on one training to teach them how to administer it. You don't want to be tied to updating content for people without limitations on your time.

My opinion - don't argue with idiots?
Edited by _02 - 6/14/11 at 8:44am
    
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post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven Dizzle View Post
So, I'm having an argument with a friend of mine....he's an idiot. I'll say that straight out. He's a .NET programmer who thinks he knows the job description and price of a web designer.

He has it in his head that a small business website design should go for 150-200$. Including any changes afterward, CSS, etc and soforth.

That's just one of my many quarrels with him...

Questions for you guys for my own personal reference in this debate:

1. Money up front. I usually go 50% up front; Your thoughts?
2. Average price for say...a wordpress theme? Full featured wordpress theme that is.
3. Logo design price for say...a distribution company?
4. Business card design price for a medium to large (20-100 employee) company?

Basic stuff.
I do all of my work with clients I meet from the internet, but they are local. Should be said.

1. Depends on the overall cost. Usually 50% upfront.
2. Depends. Maybe 100-300.
3. Depends on complexity. 50-300 or more.
4. 100-250 probably.
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post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post
$200 works out to be $15 per hour if you spend 13 hours on the project. 13 hours is not enough time to develop a medium sized business website without it being terrible or based on a template. If you are rolling logo design, templates and follow up into that, $200 is absurd.

He obviously doesn't value his time, or isn't aware of how much time can be involved in follow up work. I wouldn't even put that in a contract - that would be additional time per hour after 20 (or whatever) hours of content updating.

Or offer 5 hours of one on one training to teach them how to administer it. You don't want to be tied to updating content for people without limitations on your time.

My opinion - don't argue with idiots?

LOL, Problem is, he's a programmer, and thinks he knows it all. I on the other hand have been trained in multimedia and graphic design...but apparently I'm supposed to work for peanuts. Balls with that Other problem with that is he is we've known eachother for years. Been friends for years not We met playing the original CS 1.6
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post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven Dizzle View Post
LOL, Problem is, he's a programmer, and thinks he knows it all. I on the other hand have been trained in multimedia and graphic design...but apparently I'm supposed to work for peanuts. Balls with that
From wiki:

Quote:
Programmer Art may also refer to the art created by an independent or hobbyist developer, where a single person is responsible for all aspects of software/game development. As the creator in this case is typically a developer rather than an artist, the resulting art is functional rather than aesthetic.
Programmers historically know jack about visual design. And even non programmers think it is just making things pretty. They have no clue how much theory and thought is put into a successful design because the better it is, the more natural it looks.

And if it looks natural, it must have been easy, right? Nooooooo.
Edited by _02 - 6/16/11 at 7:39am
    
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post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
Oh, this takes the cake. A week ago, I had a discussion with this idiot about my rent being raised by nearly 50%, and that I needed to get working on a specific project if they accept the deal. He tells me they accepted and signed a contract...then he shows me the contract (which I didn't know about).

Line 53:
Payment Terms: Payment due 30 days after completion of implementation.

30 days AFTER I deliver a product..I get paid? What the hell?

Needless to say, my NAME wasn't on the contract, and I backed out. I told him "Are you completely ****ing retarded?" He says to me "It's typical business".

WTH?
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post #9 of 13
Never deliver a product without payment being secured.

I wouldn't even do spec work if I could avoid it. Why work without being guaranteed compensation?
    
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post #10 of 13
I have friends in the industry so I've heard rants about contracts/quotes many times. Let's just say that most non-designers have no clue the amount of work that goes into design. _O2's rant on natural/flowing design is spot-on too.

As for that quote of $150-200, that is utterly laughable. Who values their freelance time for so little? The client/designer disconnect is always gonna be there in some form or another, and whenever a client describes their project as "small" I roll my eyes. Small based on whose perspective?
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