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GTX590 + GTS250 physX would it be worth it on a EVGA SLI LE

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Hey there,

I recently pulled the trigger on a EVGA GTX290 hydro copper and I have a GTS250 in my rig atm. I was wondering if its worth it to throw the GTS250 in as a physX card? I ask because I know that my MB only supports 1 16x card so my question is if I put the GTS250 on the board would that regulate my shiny new toy to 8x performance?
Thanks in advance for the help

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post #2 of 12
no you would be severely bottle necking the 590

i tried it on mine (the same card) and i noticed a good 5-6 fps loss when the dedicated physix card was enabled more in some games than others... metro was even worse.. almost a -10fps loss

and yes... it would go down to x8 bandwidth if it is wired that way... look at your manual.
Edited by badatgames18 - 6/13/11 at 7:37pm
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post #3 of 12
lol that board does x16/x16 in 2 way...X58 chipset natively supports 32 lanes
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post #4 of 12
not really sure if a 250 is enough, but if it indeed bottlenecks, then you'll be seeing quite a bit of frame drops.

even if it is, you won't be seeing a significant increase in performance. save some electricity and just solo that 590
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post #5 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by wumpus;13862005 
lol that board does x16/x16 in 2 way...X58 chipset natively supports 32 lanes

This^^
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post #6 of 12
The 590 is more then powerful enough to handle your games, and do the physixs calcs, I wouldnt bother with a 250 at all.
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post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by badatgames18;13862002 
no you would be severely bottle necking the 590

i tried it on mine (the same card) and i noticed a good 5-6 fps loss when the dedicated physix card was enabled more in some games than others... metro was even worse.. almost a -10fps loss

and yes... it would go down to x8 bandwidth if it is wired that way... look at your manual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wumpus;13862005 
lol that board does x16/x16 in 2 way...X58 chipset natively supports 32 lanes


The above bolded parts are not accurate.

EVGA X58 SLI LE is 'unique' that it has a fixed lane speed distribution with no sharing. See the pic below for the speed of each PCIe slot.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/evga-x58-sli-le_2.html

The first one (Slot 1 – Primary) always works at x16. This is where the GTX590 will go.
For the GTS250, it should go to either Slot 3 or Slot 4.
If it goes to Slot 2, it will block air intake for the GTX590.
If it goes to Slot 3, performance suffers a little due to x4.
If it goes to Slot 4, it is close to the edge of the mainboard and its dual-slot design might have physical conflict.

As OP already has the GTS250, I say just try it. This will give the answer for sure.
I suspect it will help out as a Physx card. Moderator Brettjv has recently shown that an 8800GT (with 112 shaders) can help a pair of overclocked GTX470s. So, a GTS250 (with 128 shaders) should help a GTX590 as well.
Link:http://www.overclock.net/nvidia/1024211-does-dedicated-physx-card-actually-help.html

Remember one thing, if the GTX590 is used to calculate Physx effects, only 1 of the 2 GPUs will be used. And since both GPUs work at the same speed under SLI, the 2nd GPU will not be able to work at full strength, thus resulting a non-optimal pair. Having said this, a GTX590 should handle both rendering and Physx well enough. It is just that it is not working 'optimally' and most-efficiently, IMHO.
post #8 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by windfire;13862366 
The above bolded parts are not accurate.



Remember one thing, if the GTX590 is used to calculate Physx effects, only 1 of the 2 GPUs will be used. And since both GPUs work at the same speed under SLI, the 2nd GPU will not be able to work at full strength, thus resulting a non-optimal pair.
Having said this, a GTX590 should handle both rendering and Physx well enough. It is just that it is not working 'optimally' and most-efficiently, IMHO.

wut? u sure about that? cause i remeber it being different..

correct me if i'm wrong but if the 590 does the physX along with the rendering both gpus will be used up to 100% it's just that one gpu will be doing physX along with rendering.

As for a weak physX card bottle necking higher end cards... i've experienced it with my 590 myself and look at this video for proof

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbww3dhzK0M"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbww3dhzK0M[/ame]
Edited by badatgames18 - 6/13/11 at 8:19pm
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post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 
thanks for all the great replies. I'm going to give it a shot, I just wanted to see other users had any insight as to whether or not a bottleneck would occur. I'm not too worried about putting it into slot 2 since the 590 is WC so blocking the intake isn't an issue. I would rather have the 590 at 16x though, which if I remember correctly the board isn't 16x/16x, just got around to reading post by wind, thanks for that btw +rep, pci-e.jpg

so i would be 16x/8x but that's not a big deal I hope we'll see
Edited by Robitussin - 6/13/11 at 8:40pm
post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by badatgames18;13862420 
wut? u sure about that? cause i remeber it being different..

correct me if i'm wrong but if the 590 does the physX along with the rendering both gpus will be used up to 100% it's just that one gpu will be doing physX along with rendering.

As for a weak physX card bottle necking higher end cards... i've experienced it with my 590 myself and look at this video for proof

When 2 GPUs are in SLI, the workload is spilt up between them equally. (More accurately put, it is 'almost equally' because one GPU acts as the main one while the other GPU acts as a 'slave'. The main GPU has a slightly larger workload as it is responsible to coordinate its own work done with the work done by the 'slave' GPU just prior to sending to the monitor for display.) So, you would not see one GPU working at 90% while the other works at 70%. Both work at the same load of rendering.

Now, when Physx calculation is added, this workload cannot be spilt between them. Physx effect has to be done by one single GPU. So, when one of the 2 GPUs has an additional workload, part of its resources has to be allocated to this task. This would be a small part, relatively speaking, while the remaining majority of its resources is allocated to do rendering. As the two GPUs must work in sync, the other GPU (with its full resources to do rendering) has to 'slow down' a little bit to match the 1st GPU. This is where the non-optimum happens.

I learned this theory from Moderator brettjv. He did some Physx and SLI studies a while ago. I will post the link (which has numbers to backup the idea) when I find it.wink.gif

BTW, 8600GTS in the video has only the bare minimum number of shaders (ie 32). It is just plain obvious too slow. The general agreement is that a minimum of 96-128 shaders is needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robitussin;13862623 
thanks for all the great replies. I'm going to give it a shot, I just wanted to see other users had any insight as to whether or not a bottleneck would occur. I'm not too worried about putting it into slot 2 since the 590 is WC so blocking the intake isn't an issue. I would rather have the 590 at 16x though, which if I remember correctly the board isn't 16x/16x, just got around to reading post by wind, thanks for that btw +rep,

so i would be 16x/8x but that's not a big deal I hope we'll see

x8 speed will not hinder Physx performance.
For a card doing rendering, it might have a 1-2% negative impact.
For calculating Physx effects, the bandwidth requirement is much less. See the chart below. A GTS250 is between the GTX285 and GT240 and you can see the x8 speed has negligible effect.
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