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Real world difference between WD HDDs - Page 2

post #11 of 20
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Sorry for the inconvenience. The RPM was left blanc with the Sansung HDD. I always see these "green" HDDs with no RPM stated. I thought those were variable RPM, but could very well be maxed at 5400 RPM.

Here's the link to the two drives I'm talking about, I added a WD 2TB as well for the comparison:

WD 2TB Green 65 euros: http://www.alternate.nl/html/product/Harddisks_3,5_inch_SATA/Western_Digital/WD20EARS/389271/?baseId=681683

Samsung 1TB EcoGreen 60 euros: http://www.alternate.nl/html/product/Harddisks_3,5_inch_SATA/Samsung/HD204UI/471783/?tn=HARDWARE&l1=Harddisks&l2=Serial-ATA&l3=3%2C5+inch

WD 1TB Caviar Black 70 euros: http://www.alternate.nl/html/product/Harddisks_3,5_inch_SATA/Western_Digital/WD1002FAEX/412287/?tn=HARDWARE&l1=Harddisks&l2=Serial-ATA&l3=3%2C5+inch

On a sidenote I will use the HDD for now for everything, it will be my only HDD to start with so will also host the OS.
 
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post #12 of 20
i have the wd greens 1 terabyte ones... they have a 7200 rpm. and one of them is odd though... i get a max of 25 meg a second write but the other 2 get 55 + meg a second write... i checked it all and the slow one is fine.
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post #13 of 20
Kramy has got this pretty much sown up already, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari;13865544 
The SATA3 and 64MB cache are just marketing gimmicks. HDDs don't need more than 32MB cache and SATA2.

I'd agree about them being marketing gimmicks, but some disks do need more than 32MB cache, and others need less. A drive with 16MB cache is not automatically worse than one with 32 for example.

You can be sure that whatever cache is on a drive is the right amount for that controller and platter configuration. Just don't use it to distinguish between drives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy;13877715 
No.

Stronger magnetic fields controlling the actuator(s)?

Hmm.. I'm not actually sure how that all works. What I do know is, WD 1TB/2TB Blacks are noisy - but it shows in benchmarks that test seek times. While drives like the F3 1TB average 13-14ms (and are fairly quiet), those Blacks average 11.5-12.5ms. (significantly faster - and more noisy)

Likewise, it shows in short-stroke benchmarks. F3's usually hover around 8ms, while Blacks are somewhere between 6-7ms. Whatever the drive is doing, its seeks are certainly more aggressive.

Not everything comes down to RPM. Keep in mind that RPM has this much impact on access times:
Code:
10k RPM - 6ms
7.2k RPM - 8.333ms
5.4k RPM - 11.111ms
Yet despite that Raptors have 7-8ms access times, 7200RPM drives have 12-14ms access times, and 5400RPM drives have 16-19ms access times. Lower RPM drives tend to be programmed to have quieter(slower) seeking behaviour, while higher RPM drives tend not to.

You're code tags aren't access times - they are rotational latency times. Unfortunately they're all out by a factor of 2, as you're looking for the average rotational latency. This is the time taken for half a rotation of the platters - which is 3.0ms @ 10k, 4.2ms @ 7.2k and 5.6ms @ 5.4k.

Average access time = Average rotational latency + Average Seek Time + Controller overhead

Now controller overhead is effectively negligible on the timescales we're interested in, and the latency is fixed by the rpm. The seek time is basically determined by the manufacturer - the faster you go the more money you have to spend on more powerful and more accurate actuators, the louder the drive will be, the size of the platters and the more power the drive will consume. This is why the fastest 15k drives are expensive have 2.5" platters, are very loud when seeking and use a boatload of power (comparatively) when doing random accesses but manage seek times of ~2-3ms. Green drives are optimised for noise and power - so they have seek times that are 200-400% slower than this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukkel;13878039 
Sorry for the inconvenience. The RPM was left blanc with the Sansung HDD. I always see these "green" HDDs with no RPM stated. I thought those were variable RPM, but could very well be maxed at 5400 RPM.

They aren't variable RPM - no drives are. If they are true WD Greens or Samsung EcoGreens they run at 5400rpm. The Seagates run at 5900rpm. No variation at all - the platter is either stopped or at those exact speeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukkel;13878039 
On a sidenote I will use the HDD for now for everything, it will be my only HDD to start with so will also host the OS.

Green drives are crappy for OS usage. Get the Black (or a Samsung F3, which is almost as fast but usually cheaper than the Blacks), then add a 2TB Samsung F4EG later if you need the space. Or another option would be to use a Samsung F4 320GB drive for OS and a 2TB F4EG for your video.
Quote:
Originally Posted by levontraut;13878154 
i have the wd greens 1 terabyte ones... they have a 7200 rpm. and one of them is odd though... i get a max of 25 meg a second write but the other 2 get 55 + meg a second write... i checked it all and the slow one is fine.

I don't think WD ever had a 1TB Green drive at 7200rpm. Because they never really made any 7200rpm Green drives at all - there are a few (and I mean 1 range) that are 7200rpm drives, but they are actually old drives rebadged as Greens, and they are only in low capacities. To my knowledge no WD Green drive larger than 250GB spins at 7200rpm. This is in contradiction to most websites etc though, which pretty much universally state the Greens as variable or 7200rpm drives due to some dodgy marketting from WD a few years ago now.
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thank you all for the information.

The thing is, I want to start out with one HDD to begin with and perhaps get a SSD later on when the prices have dropped in years time or so. I could use it for SSD caching or just as a bootdrive. But for now I want to begin with one.

If the real world difference between the 7200 and 5400 rpm ones are not breathtaking I thought about getting the 2TB ones. I mean I'm building a new PC that will have a huge improvement on the previous one (that is 6 years old and wasn't high-end back then). So it should be faster anyway. But still I'd hate to get a wrong HDD now. It's still 60-70 euros.
 
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post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukkel;13878477 
Thank you all for the information.

The thing is, I want to start out with one HDD to begin with and perhaps get a SSD later on when the prices have dropped in years time or so. I could use it for SSD caching or just as a bootdrive. But for now I want to begin with one.

If the real world difference between the 7200 and 5400 rpm ones are not breathtaking I thought about getting the 2TB ones. I mean I'm building a new PC that will have a huge improvement on the previous one (that is 6 years old and wasn't high-end back then). So it should be faster anyway. But still I'd hate to get a wrong HDD now. It's still 60-70 euros.

For just a single drive, get the 1TB WD Black then. It will be the fastest for general use. For video editing, you'll want better sequential speed, so the Samsung F3 1TB would be the better choice, but you'll lose out on access times that the WD Black has.

Long post short, get the WD Black 1TB. The Green drives (and Samsung F4) aren't anywhere NEAR as fast.
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post #16 of 20
Apparently the 64MB Blacks are 2-platter drives instead of 3. This higher density probably accounts for the performance hike with the same RPM between drives and not "more aggressive seeking behaviour," though there could be a behavioral difference other than the standard parking stuff for all I know.
Edited by Kaldari - 6/15/11 at 3:09am
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post #17 of 20
i like my hdd but a bit expensive
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post #18 of 20
Right now on newegg you can get 2 Samsung F3s for around the price of a Caviar Black. If you put them in a RAID 0 you will get a very nice speed boost.
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post #19 of 20
dude if you are doing hd video editing go for the biggest capacity drive you can.
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post #20 of 20
If you're using it as an OS drive... go for the WD 1TB Black. IMHO it's the best deal out of those three. (I value speed over capacity)
Quote:
Originally Posted by levontraut;13878154 
i have the wd greens 1 terabyte ones... they have a 7200 rpm. and one of them is odd though... i get a max of 25 meg a second write but the other 2 get 55 + meg a second write... i checked it all and the slow one is fine.
The WD Green "Intellipower" drives are all 5400RPM.

Sounds like one of your drives is improperly aligned. Download the AS SSD benchmark and check to see if it says ###K - OK in Green in the top left for both drives. I'd bet the slower Green is misaligned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_beast;13878340 
You're code tags aren't access times - they are rotational latency times.
Yes. That's why I said "RPM has this much impact on access times:".
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_beast;13878340 
Unfortunately they're all out by a factor of 2, as you're looking for the average rotational latency. This is the time taken for half a rotation of the platters - which is 3.0ms @ 10k, 4.2ms @ 7.2k and 5.6ms @ 5.4k.
My purpose wasn't actually to calculate out the average access time - it was to point out that RPM isn't as connected to access times as people think.

So you're saying it's even less connected than my numbers indicated? tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_beast;13878340 
Average access time = Average rotational latency + Average Seek Time + Controller overhead

Now controller overhead is effectively negligible on the timescales we're interested in, and the latency is fixed by the rpm. The seek time is basically determined by the manufacturer - the faster you go the more money you have to spend on more powerful and more accurate actuators, the louder the drive will be, the size of the platters and the more power the drive will consume. This is why the fastest 15k drives are expensive have 2.5" platters, are very loud when seeking and use a boatload of power (comparatively) when doing random accesses but manage seek times of ~2-3ms. Green drives are optimised for noise and power - so they have seek times that are 200-400% slower than this.
VERY concisely put! Well done! thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_beast;13878340 
They aren't variable RPM - no drives are. If they are true WD Greens or Samsung EcoGreens they run at 5400rpm. The Seagates run at 5900rpm. No variation at all - the platter is either stopped or at those exact speeds.
Or spinning up - a phase during which no reads or writes may occur.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_beast;13878340 
To my knowledge no WD Green drive larger than 250GB spins at 7200rpm. This is in contradiction to most websites etc though, which pretty much universally state the Greens as variable or 7200rpm drives due to some dodgy marketting from WD a few years ago now.
Correct. I seem to recall seeing a 250GB 7200RPM Green ages ago. But all of them since then are 5400RPM.
     
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FX-8350 @ 4.6ghz 1.425v Sabertooth 990FX Zotac GTX 1070 Amp! 32GB (4x8GB) Kingston Fury 1866mhz CL10 1T 1.5v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Hitachi 2TB - HDS723020BLA64 Crucial M500 960GB - CT960M500SSD1 WD 4TB Black - WD4001FAEX WD 4TB Black - WD4001FAEX 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Seagate 2TB - ST2000DM001 WD 640GB Black - WD6401AALS Seagate 6TB - ST6000DM001 Micron M500 - MTFDDAK480MAV 
Optical DriveOptical DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
Pioneer DVR-115DBK Samsung SH-S243D/BEBE LG GH22NS90 Lite-On EBAU108 External DVD 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Noctua NH-D15 Fractal Design 140mm Fan - FD-FAN-140 Fractal Design 120mm Fan - FD-FAN-120 Windows 7 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Ubuntu 14.04 LTS Samsung 2343BWX 23" (2048x1152) BenQ GW2765HT 27" IPS LCD Monitor (2560x1440) Genius Keyboard KB-G235 PA 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic Platinum 1000w PSU - SS-1000XP Fractal Design Define R5 Steelseries Rival 6500 dcpi Mousepad + Desk 
AudioAudioOtherOther
Onboard Realtek® ALC 892 Cyber Acoustics CA-2992 2.0 Speakers Razer Krait 1600 DPI nGear G-C1601 Card Reader 
OtherOther
Pisen Card Reader Gigabyte M7 Thor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
VIA Eden C7 1200mhz Jetway J7F4K1G2ES-LF VIA Onboard 512MB PC2-4200 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
A-Data FlashDrive None Fanless Linux 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Headless None 65w Power Brick Antec ISK300-65 
MouseAudio
None Onboard VIA 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Barton XP-M 2400+ FJQ4C Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe 256MB BFG 7800GS OC 2x512MB Samsung PC3200 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Raptor 74GB/Seagate 120GB Windows 2000 Pro 60hz 17" CRT Brandless PS2 Keyboard 
PowerMouse
Antec Neo HE 550w Logitech G5 
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