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Which Tubing, & Fittings/Joins etc?

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Here's some background of what I'm trying to achieve; plus my separate thread for GPU blocks & TIM.
What make/model tubing IYE offers excellent performance & resilience?
I don't care too much about how easily it bends, I don't envisage having any terribly tight turns.
Performance/resilience is paramount...

I got some 1/2" Tygon w/my kit, but I've read lotsa bad stuff about my model, + there's not enough of it anyway.
How about larger than 1/2"(13mm) ID & 3/4"(19mm) OD? e.g. 5/8"(16mm) ID & ?/?"(21mm) OD
I've also heard there's flat tubing which performs better (makes sense), perhaps I should be looking at it too?

After closely looking a what Koolance offers, below is what I must narrow-down WRT fittings/joins etc.
It's hard to tell for sure from their site, but what I've listed looks like the only suitable stuff.
That's assuming there's no better tubing dimensions than circular 1/2" ID, & 3/4" OD.

Many of their parts seem to want 16mm (5/8") OD or less...
Why's that & am I missing-out on some of their best parts by sticking with my current tubing format?
It doesn't look like there's any suitable adapters, but pretty-much every other category is covered.

Fittings, Nozzles [19mm (3/4") OD, & 13mm (1/2") ID]

Clamps:
CLM-19
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=715
Splitters:
SPL-XUFY5B
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=667
SPL-XFR3
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=791
Fittings:
NZL-DXG-V2
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=867
ADT-VL3NMM
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...roduct_id=1072
ADT-VL3NFF
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...roduct_id=1071
NZL-LXG2P
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=680
NZL-LXG1P
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=679
Nozzles/Tube -> ID: 13mm:
NZL-V13-19KG
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=746
NZL-V13-19KG2
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=747
Quick Disconnect -> ID: 13:
VL3N-M13-19S
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=885
VL3N-F13-19S
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=880
VL4N-M13-19S
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...roduct_id=1050
VL4N-F13-19S
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...roduct_id=1049
Quick Disconnect -> Threaded:
VL4N-MG
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...roduct_id=1048
VL4N-FG
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...roduct_id=2033

Valves, Fill ports

VLV-13TSPL:
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=647
VLV-BL1X2:
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=918

Obviously I probably don't need something from every category, but which categories should I favour & why?
Maybe I should get some V4LN QDC fittings for each of the 3 runs in the loop, & "call it a day" for fittings?
That's 6x tube ends, so 12x M/F QDC's; 6 of which must be screw-ins for the 6x inlets/outlets of my WB's/Rad?

These are the 2x water-blocks and 1x rad. I'll definitely use at some point:
http://www.swiftech.com/apogeext.aspx
http://www.swiftech.com/mcw82vgawaterblock.aspx
http://www.swiftech.com/MCR220-Drive-Rev2.aspx
I'll get this or some other single-slot, full-cover, GPU block too.
I'll probably also get a single-slot, universal, WB, if there's one out there.

Then maybe these items to top things off for now:
Flow Meter
INS-FM18 (is it better in any way than INS-FM17N, why's it $10 more?)
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...roduct_id=1170
Flow Meter and Manometer Calibration Testing: interesting read
Temp Sensor
SEN-AP005PB
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=738
Tubing Wrap -> OD: 19mm (assuming I stick with this format!)
SPR-19BK
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=560

What sort of impact will adding this stuff & the QDC fittings have on flow-rate/pressure?
I'm concerned it'll be quite appreciable, & hence I'll want to tweak/mod or replace my pump (MCP35X).
Maybe you recommend more than just the QDC fittings & other accessories I list above?
Edited by jalyst - 6/17/11 at 2:45am
post #2 of 12
Tubing will make no difference to your performance (unless you kink it)

Basically, all it has to be is low resistance and smooth, you wont even see a performance change between 3/8" or 1/2" ID

My only real recommendation is to go with the thicker walled varient of the tubing, so that's 1/2" ID 3/4" OD and 3/8"ID 5/8" OD. The only reason for that is it's less likely to kink.


I know a lot of people talk about the best tubing, but IMO it's not any different, the only real difference is aesthetic, some go cloudy easily for example or have a yellow tint, and OFC they all kink at slightly different angles.


Personally I like to use 1/2" ID 3/4" OD, because it looks awesome, I also currently have phobya compressions, which are fine, no leaks and they look awesome and compressions are really nice and easy to use.

I wouldn't worry to much about brands though, I mean, all of these components are being sold as high quality products, if you ever have any issue, you can send it back.



Edit:

Read some more of your post.

Your pump is fine, its the strongest pump on the market, highest pressure at 1GPM flowrate and you have frankly nothing in your loop atm, don't worry about that, you wont see improvements there.

The VL4N quick release fittings are the ones you want for the least restriction to your loop, but even so, they are very restrictive and will do nothing but harm your temps, though that said, your pump is more than capable.

As to why koolance stuff is more expensive, you're probably paying a premium for the cost looks, while it may be true that koolance use a more accurate sensor in their device, frankly, at this level. you wont see a difference.

Tubing wrap/anti kink coils wont do a thing, purely aesthetic, I've never seen them achieve bends in pipe that couldn't be managed anyway IMO, though I'm sure somebody has used them to good effect. (I've seen better results with cable ties).

You wont need splitters on your loop imo.

You wont need clamps if you use compressions

Drain valve could be useful...


Short answer to what I believe you were asking is... If you want better results, you need more radiators - and your pump can easily take it.
Edited by Crabid - 6/14/11 at 11:59am
    
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post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
.....
Edited by jalyst - 6/16/11 at 1:29am
post #4 of 12
Thread Starter 
...
Edited by jalyst - 6/17/11 at 2:32am
post #5 of 12
There really isn't much of a difference between joins ofcourse, but get thicker tubing for more water to get through.
post #6 of 12
Thread Starter 
Hi Crabid,

Thank-you so much for taking the time to add your thoughts, tis very much appreciated!
I've pulled from my OP, what I think are the only Qns you've not yet addressed:

Quote:
I got some 1/2" Tygon w/my kit, but I've read lotsa bad stuff about my model, + there's not enough anyway.
(1)I've also heard there's flat tubing which performs better (makes sense), perhaps I should be looking at it?

(2)What make/model tubing IYE offers the best performance & resilience?
I don't care too much about how easily it bends, I don't envisage having any terribly tight turns.
Performance/resilience is paramount...
Below is my response to your last post......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabid View Post
Tubing size/dimensions will make no difference to your performance (unless you kink it)
Basically, all it has to be is low resistance and smooth, you wont even see a performance change between 3/8" or 1/2" ID
Have you seen any in-depth analysis comparing the performance of diff. tubing dimensions, & thereby proving that the diff. is negligible?
I was hoping MartinLabs or Skineelabs would've have done something, alas no.

Quote:
My only real recommendation is to go with the thicker walled varient of the tubing, so that's 1/2" ID 3/4" OD and 3/8"ID 5/8" OD. The only reason for that is it's less likely to kink.
Interesting point...
I wonder if thicker walls also prevents a tiny amt of heat from escaping via tubing.
I guess it's so tiny that it's inconsequential, but I don't know for sure.


Quote:
I know a lot of people talk about the best tubing, but IMO it's not any different, the only real difference is aesthetic, some go cloudy easily for example or have a yellow tint, and OFC they all kink at slightly different angles.
Yeah but...
Some are more resilient & hence look better for longer, & leech less crap into the loop over time.
Right?
Some of the Tygon models seem to be bad in this regard.

Quote:
The VL4N quick release fittings are the ones you want for the least restriction to your loop, but even so, they are very restrictive and will do nothing but harm your temps, though that said, your pump is more than capable.
Yeah they're the ones, although I'll prolly only get 4 (2xM & 2xF) for starters.
(i.e. both ends of 1 of the 3 tubing runs, or 1 end of 2 of the runs)
If I see a use for more down-the-track, then I'll add as needed.
Apparently I also have to be careful with the V4LN's on some blocks/rads.
As there may not be enough space between the threading for them to screw in!
Plus the threading the V4LN's use, may not be compatible with the block/rad I use.
But that can be rectified with this...

So the remainder of my fittings will need to be compressions/clamps I guess?
Assuming I stick with 1/2" ID & 3/4" OD, which models (preferably koolance) would you suggest?

Quote:
while it may be true that koolance use a more accurate sensor in their device, frankly, at this level. you wont see a difference.
Which device of theirs that I linked to are you referring to, their temp sensor or their flow-meter?
Are both utterly useless, or do you feel one or the other can be handy w/o compromising flow too much?
What makes/models do you suggest?

Quote:
Tubing wrap/anti kink coils wont do a thing, purely aesthetic, I've never seen them achieve bends in pipe that couldn't be managed anyway IMO, though I'm sure somebody has used them to good effect. (I've seen better results with cable ties).
Really? I thought their function was not to help with bends...
But rather provide a scaffolding of sorts, to reduce the likelihood of kinks etc?

Quote:
Short answer to what I believe you were asking is... If you want better results, you need more radiators - and your pump can easily take it.
Yeah if you see the thread I linked to in my OP...
Rad. is something I'll get longer-term, but it's not on the list for now.
I know it offers by far the single-biggest improvement...
But I don't need that single-biggest improvement yet, I just want to do the twks listed
Edited by jalyst - 6/17/11 at 2:34am
post #7 of 12
Thread Starter 
Clarified/simplified some of my earlier posts.
Looking forward to some thoughts on the final points.
No rush, I'd rather you take the time needed to address every point.
Thank-you Crabid/everyone!
post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 
@Crabid/anyone?
Sorry for bumping less than 24hrs later.
Just starting to get tight for time...
If you can help with post #6 I'd be ever so grateful!
Thanks again!
Edited by jalyst - 6/17/11 at 12:26pm
post #9 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Hi Crabid,
Have you seen any in-depth analysis comparing the performance of diff. tubing dimensions, & thereby proving that the diff. is negligible?
I was hoping MartinLabs or Skineelabs would've have done something, alas no.
I don't have any actual tests , but I have worked in an engineering environment calculating pressure drops in plants...

Normally you consider components as a length of tubing in terms of pressure drop/flowrate so you can then backtrack and calculate the pressures and flows you will actually achieve.

The issue with computer systems is that the blocks and rads are so restrictive in comparison to the tubing, there frankly isn't any point considering the pressure drop from the tubing.

Even if you see a change in pressure drop, the actual change in flow wont make a difference anyway, because so long as you have a high enough flowrate to maintain turbulent flow in the blocks the heat transfer coefficient of the water isn't really going to change.


So the only difference increased flow you will see is the difference in temperature from entering the block and leaving it, so to that end, assuming your water temp changes by 0.5oC going through the CPU block, if you double the flow, it will instead change by 0.25oC. I mean with tubing differences you're talking a 10-20% change in flow being optimistic, you just wont see the difference in your temps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Interesting point...
I wonder if thicker walls also prevents a tiny amt of heat from escaping via tubing.
I guess it's so tiny that it's inconsequential, but I don't know for sure.
Totally inconsequential, plastic is a fairly strong insulator and the surface area being circular is minimal, you are talking decimal place differences in your actual temperatures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Yeah but...
Some are more resilient & hence look better for longer, & leech less crap into the loop over time.
Right?
Some of the Tygon models seem to be bad in this regard.
You can go for different tubing if you like, I personally wouldn't. People talk about primochill tubing a lot as the best... I mean you could always use tygon now, then change it if and when it looks bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Yeah they're the ones, although I'll prolly only get 4 (2xM & 2xF) for starters.
(i.e. both ends of 1 of the 3 tubing runs, or 1 end of 2 of the runs)
If I see a use for more down-the-track, then I'll add as needed.
Apparently I also have to be careful with the V4LN's on some blocks/rads.
As there may not be enough space between the threading for them to screw in!
Plus the threading the V4LN's use, may not be compatible with the block/rad I use.
But that can be rectified with this...
Don't bother with the size exchanger, just get the right fittings. Koolance do make the fittings in G1/4" BSP.

And keep in mind, these will decrease your performance, not increase it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
So the remainder of my fittings will need to be compressions/clamps I guess?
Assuming I stick with 1/2" ID & 3/4" OD, which models (preferably koolance) would you suggest?
Koolance are fine, just get the compression fittings for your tubing with the right thread. I don't know how your loop is set up but you might want to consider by eye where you need 45 or 90 degree angled fittings, they can be quite useful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Which device of theirs that I linked to are you referring to, their temp sensor or their flow-meter?
Are both utterly useless, or do you feel one or the other can be handy w/o compromising flow too much?
What makes/models do you suggest?
They wont compromise flow too much, and they can be interesting to view, but essentially, they wont help your loop in any way. And I don't think you'll see any difference between the other brand of temperature sensor either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Really? I thought their function was not to help with bends...
But rather provide a scaffolding of sorts, to reduce the likelihood of kinks etc?
In thicker tubing, it's fairly unlikely already assuming you don't bend the tubing over at all and the anti-kink coils I have used have been a lot less stiff than my tubing, so I don't really see what benefit it can give. There are very very few situations where it would be useful (in my opinion). I would always prefer to go for an angled fitting instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Yeah if you see the thread I linked to in my OP...
Rad. is something I'll get longer-term, but it's not on the list for now.
I know it offers by far the single-biggest improvement...
But I don't need that single-biggest improvement yet, I just want to do the twks listed
Yea, my concern really was that for less than the cost of all of this stuff, you could add a nice big rad to your loop, drop your temps loads. Whereas, these changes will do little to nothing for your temps. In fact, if anything, might increase them.
    
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post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 
@Crabid, thanks heaps mate, all noted!
You missed these two:

(1)
I've also heard there's flat tubing* which performs better, have you ever read about or tried it?

(2)
What make/model tubing IYE offers the best performance/resilience?

Larger rad. will be the very 1st upgrade in my next wave of tweaks.
Once my build's done, I'll be sure to PM you my completed beast
*obviously not entirely flat
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