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How to decide on a case for air cooling (warning - pics) - Page 77

post #761 of 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesethunda View Post

thanks ehume for a good explanation, now i have something better to say when people say heat rises

It is written right under his name:

"Air goes where yu push it" biggrin.gif

Although I improve the push effect (vga ext. area) with a small good (92mm-1600rpm) pull rear fan. So it's a sort of "push'n pull" wink.gif
Edited by arrow0309 - 2/13/12 at 11:32pm
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post #762 of 2110
482[/URL] nzxt-phantom-410-sideoff.jpg 148k .jpg file

Hi guys, I've been reading threads and threads regarding airflow and cases and I've come up with a lousy sketch of what might happen to airflow in my set up. I chose the phantom 410 because it has a nice little window to look at my stuff while still allowing a side fan, and yes it's the same superficial reason for which i've decided to go with a h80 or antec 920 over a D14 (the 920 is $139 vs $169 for the h80 here in Singapore, Corsair stuff is just so expensive, same with the PSUs, it's $229 for seasonic X850W vs $259 for Corsair AX850W. 1 USD is about 1.25 SGD)

So taking Ehume's advice on top intake and positive pressure, I have 6 intake fans and 1 h80/antec 920 acting as an exhaust. If possible, i intend to mount the first fan on the outside of the rear fan panel, then the radiator and then the 2nd fan to allow more space in my chassis.Might also cut the rear fan grill to allow better airflow between fan and radiator. So if [O] is the radiator with 2 fans and | is the rear fan panel, it will be [|O] instead of |[O]

For the other fans i'm thinking of Scythe slipstreams / s flex or Yate Loon's D12SH-12/14s.

Does anyone have any better suggestions regarding the fan positions? I'm quite decided on the phantom 410 its a sleek little case and reasonably priced. Also thanks for all that insightful information, great job Ehume and you other guys =)
post #763 of 2110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansen6 View Post

482[/URL] nzxt-phantom-410-sideoff.jpg 148k .jpg file

Hi guys, I've been reading threads and threads regarding airflow and cases and I've come up with a lousy sketch of what might happen to airflow in my set up. I chose the phantom 410 because it has a nice little window to look at my stuff while still allowing a side fan, and yes it's the same superficial reason for which i've decided to go with a h80 or antec 920 over a D14 (the 920 is $139 vs $169 for the h80 here in Singapore, Corsair stuff is just so expensive, same with the PSUs, it's $229 for seasonic X850W vs $259 for Corsair AX850W. 1 USD is about 1.25 SGD)

So taking Ehume's advice on top intake and positive pressure, I have 6 intake fans and 1 h80/antec 920 acting as an exhaust. If possible, i intend to mount the first fan on the outside of the rear fan panel, then the radiator and then the 2nd fan to allow more space in my chassis.Might also cut the rear fan grill to allow better airflow between fan and radiator. So if [O] is the radiator with 2 fans and | is the rear fan panel, it will be [|O] instead of |[O]

For the other fans i'm thinking of Scythe slipstreams / s flex or Yate Loon's D12SH-12/14s.

Does anyone have any better suggestions regarding the fan positions? I'm quite decided on the phantom 410 its a sleek little case and reasonably priced. Also thanks for all that insightful information, great job Ehume and you other guys =)

I think I would not recommend that setup. You will end up with a positive pressure case, not a positive flow case. Although the positive pressure setup has the advantage of your being able to filter every air input, the air can stagnate and the temps will go up. All the temps. Positive pressure rigs have demonstrated higher temps than negative pressure rigs.

 

What's the difference between positive pressure and positive flow? The latter is a flow-through case where the flow comes from push and no pull.

 

Your setup has a rad and a fan as your only exit. Rads restrict airflow. To match the input of your six input fans you would need a monstrous fan or fans on that rad.

 

To make your system work you will need to completely remove all unused slot covers, and the slot pillars between them. Then your H80 will be fed by the upper intake fans. Your gpu(s) will be cooled by the air flowing past them, and with a completely open backplane you would have your flow-through ideal -- no pressure buildup.

 

As a cherry on top you could remove the rear grill and allow your H80 a small improvement in efficiency.
 

 

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post #764 of 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post

I think I would not recommend that setup. You will end up with a positive pressure case, not a positive flow case. Although the positive pressure setup has the advantage of your being able to filter every air input, the air can stagnate and the temps will go up. All the temps. Positive pressure rigs have demonstrated higher temps than negative pressure rigs.

What's the difference between positive pressure and positive flow? The latter is a flow-through case where the flow comes from push and no pull.

Your setup has a rad and a fan as your only exit. Rads restrict airflow. To match the input of your six input fans you would need a monstrous fan or fans on that rad.

To make your system work you will need to completely remove all unused slot covers, and the slot pillars between them. Then your H80 will be fed by the upper intake fans. Your gpu(s) will be cooled by the air flowing past them, and with a completely open backplane you would have your flow-through ideal -- no pressure buildup.

As a cherry on top you could remove the rear grill and allow your H80 a small improvement in efficiency.

 

Damn, i thought i had it nailed! I totally agree with the removing of the rear grill, but i'm not sure if i would cut the pillars between the slot pillars. I guess I could always swap the top intakes to top exhausts instead, with 4 intake fans and 3 exhausts(including 1 radiator exhaust), there would still be positive air pressure.

I could also use the h80 as a top intake fan, the first one, so that the exhaust from it will be exhausted from the chassis by the rear fan quickly.
post #765 of 2110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansen6 View Post

 

Damn, i thought i had it nailed! I totally agree with the removing of the rear grill, but i'm not sure if i would cut the pillars between the slot pillars. I guess I could always swap the top intakes to top exhausts instead, with 4 intake fans and 3 exhausts(including 1 radiator exhaust), there would still be positive air pressure.

I could also use the h80 as a top intake fan, the first one, so that the exhaust from it will be exhausted from the chassis by the rear fan quickly.


If you are going to move the H80, might as well make it rear top intake. I don't think it will reach the forward top. If you remove the rear grill there is no need for any exhaust fan. Or you could make the forward top fan an exhaust. The whole point of having a forward top intake is to provide fresh air to a heatsink. You have a rad that will be getting its air directly from the outside.

 

But the point of the exercise is to avoid pressure buildup. With an open space where the rear grill used to be you will get flow, not pressure. That will assure cooler RAM and gpu temps.

 


Edited by ehume - 2/18/12 at 10:47am
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post #766 of 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post



If you are going to move the H80, might as well make it rear top intake.I don't think it will reach the forward top. If you remove the rear grill there is no need for any exhaust fan. Or you could make the forward top fan an exhaust. The whole point of having a forward top intake is to provide fresh air to a heatsink. You have a rad that will be getting its air directly from the outside.

But the point of the exercise is to avoid pressure buildup. With an open space where the rear grill used to be you will get flow, not pressure. That will assure cooler RAM and gpu temps.

I'm sorry i'm a little bit confused, so you're saying i should keep the original set up with H80 exhausting, top rear intake, top forward exhaust?
Or
h80 rear top intake, no rear grill/fan, top exhaust?

I looked at some more videos, the HAF932 looks pretty good too but its quite a bit more expensive, though that isn't the main drawback. If i got that i would probably have to spend quite a bit more getting 230mm fan filters because the HAF932 doesn't have filters for its 230mm front and side intake, nor the bottom psu/fan intakes. Options options options.
post #767 of 2110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansen6 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post



If you are going to move the H80, might as well make it rear top intake.I don't think it will reach the forward top. If you remove the rear grill there is no need for any exhaust fan. Or you could make the forward top fan an exhaust. The whole point of having a forward top intake is to provide fresh air to a heatsink. You have a rad that will be getting its air directly from the outside.

But the point of the exercise is to avoid pressure buildup. With an open space where the rear grill used to be you will get flow, not pressure. That will assure cooler RAM and gpu temps.

I'm sorry i'm a little bit confused, so you're saying i should keep the original set up with H80 exhausting, top rear intake, top forward exhaust?
Or
h80 rear top intake, no rear grill/fan, top exhaust?

I looked at some more videos, the HAF932 looks pretty good too but its quite a bit more expensive, though that isn't the main drawback. If i got that i would probably have to spend quite a bit more getting 230mm fan filters because the HAF932 doesn't have filters for its 230mm front and side intake, nor the bottom psu/fan intakes. Options options options.


Setup 1: H80 intake, top rear, grill removed, no fan there. Forward top position -- anything you like (intake, exhaust, no fan, blocked).

 

Setup 2: H80 rear exhaust, top fans exhaust.

 

etc.

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post #768 of 2110
Alright tyvm! hopefully i'll be able to share some results here in the following months =)
post #769 of 2110
I have a few questions, which will probably just show how much of a noob I am:

I have three fans in my Fractal R3. 1 front intake, 1 bottom intake, 1 rear exhaust, a Silver Arrow on the CPU and a GTX560ti Hawk.

I get more than good enough temps with the fans all off (I have a fan controller). My ambient temperature is above 20C and the CPU is usually at about 30 to 35C.
When I game I put the front + rear fans at 40% but I don't do much temperate monitoring, it's more of a reassurance thing. I don't touch the bottom fan as it's vibrating, I need to isolate it with rubber pads.

I have my CPU OCed to 4.4Ghz. My GPU has no OCing headroom so it's not overclocked. I reach no dangerous temperatures at all when I game, my overclock's stable... no issues at all, no over-heating. And this with either no fans or just two fans on.

So... why do I see a lot of cases with such huge amount of fans? How can setups be quiet this way? Furthermore I always hear watercooling is quieter, but in my case it's the fans that make the most nopise and watercooling requires (from what I've seen) a lot of cases; is it then only suitable for extreme overclocking?

So there... I hope that's not ignorant... but I'm curous smile.gif thanks y'all!
post #770 of 2110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pott View Post

I have a few questions, which will probably just show how much of a noob I am:

I have three fans in my Fractal R3. 1 front intake, 1 bottom intake, 1 rear exhaust, a Silver Arrow on the CPU and a GTX560ti Hawk.

I get more than good enough temps with the fans all off (I have a fan controller). My ambient temperature is above 20C and the CPU is usually at about 30 to 35C.
When I game I put the front + rear fans at 40% but I don't do much temperate monitoring, it's more of a reassurance thing. I don't touch the bottom fan as it's vibrating, I need to isolate it with rubber pads.

I have my CPU OCed to 4.4Ghz. My GPU has no OCing headroom so it's not overclocked. I reach no dangerous temperatures at all when I game, my overclock's stable... no issues at all, no over-heating. And this with either no fans or just two fans on.

So... why do I see a lot of cases with such huge amount of fans? How can setups be quiet this way? Furthermore I always hear watercooling is quieter, but in my case it's the fans that make the most nopise and watercooling requires (from what I've seen) a lot of cases; is it then only suitable for extreme overclocking?

So there... I hope that's not ignorant... but I'm curous smile.gif thanks y'all!


Hmm. 2500K. No hyperthreading. That's good for at least 10c.

 

Hmm. Silver Arrow. One of the very best heatsinks.

 

Hmm. Ambient of 20c. Lots of room for temps -- it would take a 60c TOA to get you up to 80c.

 

And what Vcore are you using?

 

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