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[Phonedog]Is Microsoft's decision to allow for jailbreaking devices a good thing? - Page 2

post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miki View Post

The music player on the iPhone is better than all those apps for Android, imo. And, I wouldn't be surprised if Windows Phone 7 has a better music player as well. Guess this is open for debate.

Actually, I think Google Music Beta is a fantastic cloud music service, based on what I experienced. Seamless integration across Android devices as well as desktop browsers in terms of uploading and streaming music. Also, we have WP7-like music apps like Fede's Music (now UberMusic) to match WP7's Zune UI - you could say however that this makes the original offering look extremely too cool for others to copy. In fact, I love the Zune interface.


I think Windows Phone 7 over all is a better phone. More fluid, faster, better UI. Just my opinion. I like Android and I have considered (still do) trying it for myself, but I have read plenty of reviews of bugginess, slowdowns, not handing multitasking great, crashing, etc.

Those instances of crashes and bugs are usually caused by bloatware installed on Android devices - we could blame the carriers and OEM manufacturers for that. Stock Android found on the Nexus line of phones and optimized ones created by 3rd-party developers effectively stomp out these issues.

I can't comment much on Android but I will say that I have read more people saying how well Windows Phone 7 performs, and not so much for Android. Even with a dual core.

I agree that Android needs beefy hardware to perform well; however, it could be attributed to the sheer flexibility and power of the platform. The upcoming Ice Cream Sandwich update should enable full hardware acceleration (it's only partial on Gingerbread) that the platform lacks for it to run smoothly. WP7 doesn't need that much horsepower since its features and UI do not demand much.


And that's exactly what I thought. You want it to be an Android. Microsoft isn't copying anyone. In fact, many could argue Android copied Apple... and it did, in many ways. Sure, it's more 'open', but let's be honest.

Actually, Android was in development in 2006, before Apple launched the iPhone back in 07. I agree though that many UI elements are inspired by iOS; however, in this generation, Android's the one innovating with new features. The introduction of iOS5 with some Android-like features (drop-down notification, etc.) prove this.


Microsoft wants consistent results, a good experience. That's why they give the specifications. That's why in EVERY review the person is raving about how fluid and fast the phone is. When new features get added, I'm sure MS will adjust the specs to match them.

Unlike reviews for Android phones, which are generally mixed in terms of performance.

I like how Microsoft puts hardware requirements on its manufacturers, and puts phones in rigorous testing before being released into the wild. However, the free-for-all approach of Google enables hardware makers to be on the same arena - which ultimately leads to competition against one another. This allows for faster hardware development in attempts to outdo the other, like how TI OMAP and Qualcomm are racing against Nvidia in putting out powerful processors. This benefits the Android platform even more, because it should have the required horsepower for it to get better improvements and features in the future.

Clarifying some stuff for you, I hope you don't mind.

In terms of the original question, I'd say MS did the right thing allowing jailbreaking of its devices for a nominal fee. This should accelerate app development more, as developers would have minimal restrictions when it comes to accessing source code and hardware in order to create their own apps.
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post #12 of 15
You have to compare everything to Android though. It has the most marketshare and its on almost every phone. I wouldn't be surprised if they've passed Apple in apps as well.

Microsoft will never catch up if they keep emulating Apple. If Apple started letting other companies make iPhones, and they said "You have to use the Apple A4, and the screen resolution has to be 960x640 on a 3.5" screen" then you'd basically have WP7: A bunch of different looking phones that all perform exactly the same.


But its still just a single device. What if you want a cheaper phone? Can't do it because Microsoft dictates the hardware. What if you want a crazy expensive phone using the latest processor and screen technology? Can't do it because Microsoft dictates the hardware.


How are they going to capture the market if they only serve a small niche like Apple does? What would Windows 7's marketshare be if Microsoft said "You have to use a Core i5 2500k with an HD 6750"? Chances are it would be around 10% like Apple's.


Android works on slow phones, fast phones, devices that aren't even phones and you can develop AND SELL apps for free using tools that are available for every platform that can run Oracle's JVM, which last I checked was ALL OF THEM.


Microsoft can't touch this. They might have moderate success on their home turf like Apple does, but Android is the future. Android is to smartphones what DOS was to PCs, its not perfect, but its just going to keep growing and growing until 80-90% of the industry is using it.

That's why Android has been gaining significant marketshare quarter after quarter, while the iPhone is sitting stagnant at 25-30%, Blackberry is slowly declining, Nokia is in freefall, and Windows Mobile is slowly dwindling to insignificance.


When Nokia finally replaces Symbian with WP7 that will do a lot to help the cause, but at their current rate the best Microsoft can hope for is to take Apple's place in second.
    
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post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsoviet View Post
Those instances of crashes and bugs are usually caused by bloatware installed on Android devices - we could blame the carriers and OEM manufacturers for that. Stock Android found on the Nexus line of phones and optimized ones created by 3rd-party developers effectively stomp out these issues.
And a perfect example of why the way Microsoft is handling Windows Phone 7 is ultimetly better. If stock Android was all there is, great. Reality is, it's not. And unfortunately, not everyone is tech savy enough to know how to get rid of crapware like Motoblur.

Among other things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsoviet View Post
I agree that Android needs beefy hardware to perform well; however, it could be attributed to the sheer flexibility and power of the platform. The upcoming Ice Cream Sandwich update should enable full hardware acceleration (it's only partial on Gingerbread) that the platform lacks for it to run smoothly. WP7 doesn't need that much horsepower since its features and UI do not demand much.
Should, or will? Is this just intuition on your part? But anyway, you're right, the Windows Phone platform works great for what it does, and I'm sure they'll make adjustments when the future demands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsoviet View Post
Actually, Android was in development in 2006, before Apple launched the iPhone back in 07. I agree though that many UI elements are inspired by iOS; however, in this generation, Android's the one innovating with new features. The introduction of iOS5 with some Android-like features (drop-down notification, etc.) prove this.
I wasn't aware. So who actually had a product out first? I mean, you said the UI elements are "inspired by iOS", so, doesn't that pretty much sum up what I said?

I'm not familiar enough with Android's features or iOS 5 to make a comment on the drop down notification menu. I'll just take your word for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsoviet View Post
I like how Microsoft puts hardware requirements on its manufacturers, and puts phones in rigorous testing before being released into the wild. However, the free-for-all approach of Google enables hardware makers to be on the same arena - which ultimately leads to competition against one another. This allows for faster hardware development in attempts to outdo the other, like how TI OMAP and Qualcomm are racing against Nvidia in putting out powerful processors. This benefits the Android platform even more, because it should have the required horsepower for it to get better improvements and features in the future.
The free for all approach also may create issues for end users. But, I do understand your point.

Also, I don't mind you expressing your views on this matter, I actually like hearing different points of view.

Anyway, on to Nathris...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
You have to compare everything to Android though. It has the most marketshare and its on almost every phone. I wouldn't be surprised if they've passed Apple in apps as well.

Microsoft will never catch up if they keep emulating Apple. If Apple started letting other companies make iPhones, and they said "You have to use the Apple A4, and the screen resolution has to be 960x640 on a 3.5" screen" then you'd basically have WP7: A bunch of different looking phones that all perform exactly the same.
Meh, you're looking at this as a UI vs hardware matter. While sure Android may outsell iOS, the fact is you have HTC, Samsung, LG, Pantech, Motorolla, etc, all with Android on them vs iOS only on the iPhone.

If you take the numbers individually, none of them come close to the iPhone in terms of overall sales. Whether Motorola vs iPhone, or whatever.

Imagine if the iOS platform was on multiple devices on multiple carriers. In fact, the iPhone only recently became available on Verizon, and is still not available on Sprint. I think it's a bit premature to get all excited over android moving a little bit ahead considering the overwhelming advantages it has against the little 3.5" screen iPhone 4.

While diversity with iPhones are limited, the sales speak for themselves. Individually, none of the majour Android carriers come close to the iPhone in sales.

Combined, well, yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
But its still just a single device. What if you want a cheaper phone? Can't do it because Microsoft dictates the hardware. What if you want a crazy expensive phone using the latest processor and screen technology? Can't do it because Microsoft dictates the hardware.
Much like Apple does with their platform. Not seeing the big deal. It's all about getting a consistent product for all users. Ultimately, a better product.

While you're Android might have the fastest CPU on the market, the Windows Phone will be made to perform best on whatever hardware specifications Microsoft demands. There won't even be a need to compete with your fancy specifications as long as the performance is great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
How are they going to capture the market if they only serve a small niche like Apple does? What would Windows 7's marketshare be if Microsoft said "You have to use a Core i5 2500k with an HD 6750"? Chances are it would be around 10% like Apple's.
What if, what if, what if. To much talking points, not enough substance.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Android works on slow phones, fast phones, devices that aren't even phones and you can develop AND SELL apps for free using tools that are available for every platform that can run Oracle's JVM, which last I checked was ALL OF THEM.



Microsoft can't touch this. They might have moderate success on their home turf like Apple does, but Android is the future. Android is to smartphones what DOS was to PCs, its not perfect, but its just going to keep growing and growing until 80-90% of the industry is using it.

That's why Android has been gaining significant marketshare quarter after quarter, while the iPhone is sitting stagnant at 25-30%, Blackberry is slowly declining, Nokia is in freefall, and Windows Mobile is slowly dwindling to insignificance.



When Nokia finally replaces Symbian with WP7 that will do a lot to help the cause, but at their current rate the best Microsoft can hope for is to take Apple's place in second.
That's great, but it doesn't make Windows Phone 7 a bad phone just because Android does things different. Obviously, many people like the iPhone vs Android, and many will enjoy Windows Phone 7 more. I understand that's hard to wrap your head around, because you are obviously very passionate about what you like.

Throwing around numbers and pretending to know the future doesn't make your argument any less invalid, fyi. I'm not trying to be mean here, but you keep making assumptions about a matter that has barely begun. Windows Phone 7 hasn't even been out a year.

Android is gaining market share because it's on a ton of carriers, it's on a ton of phones. And it has had a majour head start. It's got a fresh UI that many people liked because they couldn't get an iPhone on Verizon. I said it.

-------

Time to be serious.... >_<

Here's the thing, we can go back and forth for months, but I want to make something clear for everyone that's reading this: This conversation started with you basically bashing Windows Phone 7. I didn't defend the product because I use it, on the contrary, I have an iPhone. I defended them because, imo, while I'm not saying it's "better" than Android, it has a lot of potential to be better. Maybe.

I am not so fast to knock a product that was released less than a year ago. You have to be realistic. They are rolling out Mango update that's offering 500+ features, and yet you dismiss it and downplay it, even though you really haven't a clue what it completely entails.

It's just evident that this isn't about Windows Phone 7 but your need to argue why Android is so much better.

All those "issues" you've had, seemingly are going to be addressed, but then you decide to nitpick at every other little thing you can to discredit the phone as being "weak"...

Anyway, I'm done debating, at this point it's like beating a dead horse. Agree to disagree, and others can read our little series and make up their own mind.
post #14 of 15
Android was in development with iOS-like features in mind, like the implementation of an app store and full web capability. However, Google then purchased the company (Andy Rubin was CEO) but have not yet found suitable hardware partners to produce their first Android product. It was only months after the launch of the iPhone that they had the chance with the HTC G1. The final touches to the Android UI are derived from iOS, but the filesystem and overall platform architectures are all different.

And yeah, from Google I/O conference the engineers said that 2.4 ICS will feature full hardware acceleration, as it is built on Honeyccomb and Gingerbread code.
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post #15 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsoviet View Post
Android was in development with iOS-like features in mind, like the implementation of an app store and full web capability. However, Google then purchased the company (Andy Rubin was CEO) but have not yet found suitable hardware partners to produce their first Android product. It was only months after the launch of the iPhone that they had the chance with the HTC G1. The final touches to the Android UI are derived from iOS, but the filesystem and overall platform architectures are all different.

And yeah, from Google I/O conference the engineers said that 2.4 ICS will feature full hardware acceleration, as it is built on Honeyccomb and Gingerbread code.
Ah, I see, pretty interesting info. c:
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