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would an 1100T bottleneck 570 SLI? - Page 13  

post #121 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post
As much as I hate to admit it (long time AMD fan myself), Balla is right.

I came from an unlocked Athlon II x4 @ 3.85GHz, 2.75GHz NB (not all that bad of a CPU). It was paired with a GTX470.

Jumped over to my Sandy Bridge setup. With just the one GTX470, every SINGLE game I play, I saw massive increases in my minimum and average framerates. Games that were barely playable before, became super smooth 60+. Games that were playable before, with some frame drops (like BFBC2), jumped well over 120 FPS average. Quite literally EVERY game I play (even source engine) saw improvements.

So yes, an AMD setup, high clocked or not, 99% GPU usage or not, is going to bottleneck any high end GPU setup, single GPU or not.

Low Res vs. High Res:
One thing nobody in this thread has mentioned yet. If there's a bottleneck on a CPU at a low resolution, then its OBVIOUSLY going to be there at a higher resolution too. Just because your GPU gets more action, doesn't mean its not being held back by the CPU. The CPU is only there, to feed the GPU information, and usually for physics effects. If its having a hard time at a low resolution, then it WILL have the same hard time at a higher resolution too, which means there is still a bottleneck there.

I'm sorry, but it is the truth. Current generation AMD CPU's do bottleneck high end cards right now, at any clock speed that's achieveable. The architecture just can't perform fast enough.

If your games play at 60+ FPS though (and don't drop below that), then its not a problem. However if you're playing a game, and you're dropping down to a lower framerate at times, but you've got a high end GPU setup, I promise its that AMD CPU that's doing it to you.
This right here was brilliantly said!! I'd +rep you if I could !!
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post #122 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post
As much as I hate to admit it (long time AMD fan myself), Balla is right.

I came from an unlocked Athlon II x4 @ 3.85GHz, 2.75GHz NB (not all that bad of a CPU). It was paired with a GTX470.

Jumped over to my Sandy Bridge setup. With just the one GTX470, every SINGLE game I play, I saw massive increases in my minimum and average framerates. Games that were barely playable before, became super smooth 60+. Games that were playable before, with some frame drops (like BFBC2), jumped well over 120 FPS average. Quite literally EVERY game I play (even source engine) saw improvements.

So yes, an AMD setup, high clocked or not, 99% GPU usage or not, is going to bottleneck any high end GPU setup, single GPU or not.

Low Res vs. High Res:
One thing nobody in this thread has mentioned yet. If there's a bottleneck on a CPU at a low resolution, then its OBVIOUSLY going to be there at a higher resolution too. Just because your GPU gets more action, doesn't mean its not being held back by the CPU. The CPU is only there, to feed the GPU information, and usually for physics effects. If its having a hard time at a low resolution, then it WILL have the same hard time at a higher resolution too, which means there is still a bottleneck there.

I'm sorry, but it is the truth. Current generation AMD CPU's do bottleneck high end cards right now, at any clock speed that's achieveable. The architecture just can't perform fast enough.

If your games play at 60+ FPS though (and don't drop below that), then its not a problem. However if you're playing a game, and you're dropping down to a lower framerate at times, but you've got a high end GPU setup, I promise its that AMD CPU that's doing it to you.
Always good info from pioneer.

I hope we can finally put this topic to rest. Yes, Phenoms will bottleneck alot of games, much worst than an Intel counterpart(which will still provide a bottleneck).
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post #123 of 146
I think we can all say that there are certain games that will suffer "bottlenecking" due to the Phenom architecture. We've all seen it before- Crysis, Starcraft II, Civ 5, Anno: Dawn of Discovery are all very much CPU dependent, and therefore the Phenom gets smacked around like a volleyball in benchmarks. But other games don't rely on the CPU as much, and so your videocard gets run through its paces regardless of your CPU.

There are a lot of reviews out there that show exactly what I've stated- look at 990FX reviews for SLI/CFX scaling. Scaling is just as good as X58 or P67 boards, but you definitely see the CPU limitations in lower resolutions and older games:

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1626/7/

http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-s...90fx-review/17

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-14.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-am3,2953.html

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...board_review/5

But once you turn up the settings, everything is fine. Anecdotal evidence means nothing when paid reviewers with a formulaic method for benchmarking hardware disagree with you on most points. SLI 570s with a Phenom II will be held back if you hold back the settings. SLI 570s with a Phenom II will not achieve the same FPS averages and minimums in most cases as compared to a 2X00K and P67 board. But the SLI 570s with the Phenom II will scale with each other, they will get higher minimums and maximums when you add or turn on the second card, and they will scale for both minimums and maximums when you overclock. Will they do all that as well as the 2X00K? No.

The fundamental question posed by this thread is "What is a bottleneck?" which is a tricky question to answer. From what I've read, the general consensus is that a bottleneck is a wall to your system- that one part says "no, you cannot go any faster no matter what happens with the other components". Your 5750 simply cannot go faster than 40 FPS in BF:BC2 at 1920x1080 no matter how much you overclock your CPU. That is a bottleneck. This is usually not the case with Phenom II. Everything continues to get better as you add better parts in, just at a slower rate than if it was a Sandy Bridge CPU.

Sandy Bridge is better. The Phenom II will slow down 570s for sure, but it will still scale at a 1.7-1.9x rate in SLI. Upgrading to Sandy Bridge for 570 SLI or other high-end setups is worth it if you have the money. If you don't, you lose performance but not a lot.

Edit: One last review (HardOCP) to show that the Phenom 2 is definitely weaker at low CPU bound settings
Edited by KittensMewMew - 6/20/11 at 5:19pm
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post #124 of 146
Kitten I like where you're going but your conclusion seems a bit bias.

You failed to cite the simple undeniable fact that a 3.7GHz Phemnom II is pretty close to its overclocked max.

Whereas a i5 at 3.1GHz is about 2000MHz slower than a lot of people run their i5-2500ks.

In each and every review I saw the i5 was faster, this is indicative of the fact that in every game that I saw the AMD system bottlenecking the cards more so than the a 3.1GHz Intel system.

The point of fact is when overclocking 570s in SLI will perform worse on Phenom II than it will on an Intel system. So it stands to reason that an Phenom II setup with 570s in SLI is overkill to the point of wasting at least $100, probably more. You would get the same performance in the end with a much lesser setup with the Phenom II. Sure you could get higher results overall with 580s in tri SLI, but you wouldn't be getting the performance the price of that setup warrants.

However I find it ironic you would put down local posters and their own experiences while actually pushing hardware in favor of what paid review sites say after spending all of a day or two testing with stock configurations. At least one of the links you posted is actually not SLI results either, they're showing a single card configuration. The question isn't tricky at all.

Will it bottleneck horribly in Crysis 1? Yes.

Will it bottleneck in many Steam based games? Yes.

Will your performance, and overall experience be less than what is achievable with an SB based build? Yes.

Therefore will a 1100T bottleneck 570 sli? Yes.

What happens when we start to overclock? 3.7GHz doesn't leave a lot of room for Phenom II to overclock. However 3.1GHz, with a NB tied directly to clock rate provides a huge potential difference.

So the bottom line is you may get by with a 1100T for awhile with 570 SLI, however you won't be getting the most out of your system. You'll also need to upgrade your system if you want to overclock, or as games continue to evolve via physics/AI and all the other goodies coming.

So the real question you have to ask yourself, is do I spend $200 now for an AMD chip that will under perform compared to a 3.1GHz SB chip, or should I spent $200 and get twice the power potential? Sure I may not need it all right now in every game, but its nice to know I have a the ability to double my performance whereas that simply will not happen with any current AMD build. Upgrade now, so I can be outdated and underpowered the moment I plug it in, or upgrade now and have the potential to add faster hardware to my pre existing system without replacing everything?
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 6/20/11 at 6:37pm
    
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post #125 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
-snip-

So the bottom line is you may get by with a 1100T for awhile with 570 SLI, however you won't be getting the most out of your system. You'll also need to upgrade your system if you want to overclock, or as games continue to evolve via physics/AI and all the other goodies coming.

-snip-
I agree with you here- if, out of the blue I decided I NEEDED to have 6970s in CFX tomorrow, I know my 965 wouldn't be as good as a Sandy Bridge processor, but I know it would still be a performance gain overall.

You'd be stupid to not go for a Sandy Bridge setup if its in your budget ($700+ range for a good i5 2500k and P67 setup with a decent GPU) and you're building a new computer or needing a major upgrade from LGA775 or Phenom I.

The answer to question the thread poses is "No, a 1100T will not bottleneck SLI 570s in a significantly noticeable (during gameplay) way, except in certain circumstances- but Sandy Bridge has better performance at the same price for newly built computers." Fair enough? AMD has lost the new build mid-range and entry-level gaming setups (which was definitely owned by them for a long time there), and never had the high-end to begin with, which kind of sucks for them.
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post #126 of 146
I'll agree, except Phenom II will still perform horribly in some games, like WoW, and SC2, and Crysis 1.

If that doesn't matter, than it will get you by... But at the same time you'd be just as well off with a 460 SLI setup and save yourself $200.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 6/20/11 at 9:18pm
    
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post #127 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittensMewMew View Post
I agree with you here- if, out of the blue I decided I NEEDED to have 6970s in CFX tomorrow, I know my 965 wouldn't be as good as a Sandy Bridge processor, but I know it would still be a performance gain overall.

You'd be stupid to not go for a Sandy Bridge setup if its in your budget ($700+ range for a good i5 2500k and P67 setup with a decent GPU) and you're building a new computer or needing a major upgrade from LGA775 or Phenom I.

The answer to question the thread poses is "No, a 1100T will not bottleneck SLI 570s in a significantly noticeable (during gameplay) way, except in certain circumstances- but Sandy Bridge has better performance at the same price for newly built computers." Fair enough? AMD has lost the new build mid-range and entry-level gaming setups (which was definitely owned by them for a long time there), and never had the high-end to begin with, which kind of sucks for them.

Well said I agree.
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post #128 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by philhalo66 View Post
title says it all, at 4.0GHz will an 1100T bottleneck 2 570's in SLI?
I'm confused because I don't think philhalo66 gave us enough background to possibly answer his question. First of all, what board is he using? Is it the hardware in his "SubZero" box with the ECS A780GM-A Ultra? This board only has one PCIe X16 slot and it's questionable whether it will even run an 1100T. Is he planning to upgrade to an new 990X or 990FX mobo and run his current AMD Phenom II 710 3.1GHz until BD comes out? Is he planning on running another mobo with an SLI hack? How can anybody give an intelligent answer with such limited info?
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post #129 of 146
how many aliens in other galaxies are debating similar gaming questions right relativity now I wonder
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post #130 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroMiniMe View Post
How can anybody give an intelligent answer with such limited info?
Because even with a CHV a 1100T will perform the same way it does now on older boards?

I also don't understand why anyone is advocating an eight core cpu for gaming, it must be in another galaxy where that would actually make sense.
    
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