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[Official] GTX 580 Overclocking Club - Page 272

post #2711 of 3582
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10acjed View Post


If you go over to HWBot and check out the 3DMark entries for the 580 series, the top 20 scores are full of Lightnings, with a few scattered Asus Matrix & DCUII, Gigabyte SOC and such. Really dont see too many straight 580's like the zotacs and such or evga vanilla's...

As far as "binning" is concerned, it would have to depend on what you define as binning...

But it seems they either all the factory OC'd non reference cards clock higher, or benchers dont buy vanilla cards...



Could be either because these cards are "better" in the sense that they are on better PCB's with better components 


I think you are comparing something different. I think the argument is that pretty much any card can hit the weak factory oc's like 832mhz. But if you want to bring up the top OC's. Then for sure the ones with better voltage regulation should hit a higher max.
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post #2712 of 3582
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsout View Post


I think you are comparing something different. I think the argument is that pretty much any card can hit the weak factory oc's like 832mhz. But if you want to bring up the top OC's. Then for sure the ones with better voltage regulation should hit a higher max.


Yeah thats kinda what I figured. 

 

I wasnt sure if you were talking about overall ability or just factory OC...

 

The real truth wont be known. However these companies due claim to have select GPU's or "binned" as its put, and they claim to hand pick each one for lowest voltage & heat and best OC..

 

Gigabyte calls their process "the gauntlet" and actually advertise the process as a selling point of the SOC series.

 

 

 

Quote:
World’s #1 GPU cherry-picking process Only the strongest processors survive the GPU Gauntlet. GIGABYTE’s database analysis system evaluates the GPU core engine, shader engine. The GPUs with the best power efficiency and lowest power consumption are qualified for the Super Overclock Series.

http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3830#ov

 

 

Whether it false advertising or not is just an opinion on whether or not we chose to believe them...

 

 

They claim to test each one to see which ones will run cool and at the lowest voltage. Typically the lowest default voltage and heat will have the best OC results..

 

Also consider that a non binned card doesnt mean it wont equal a binned one, being it may have never been tested at these levels, so you can easily buy a vanilla 580 that has the same performance of the GPU on a non reference performance card.. After all in the end they are all just the same GeForce Fermi chips... So much like CPU's some clock better and run cooler than others...

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by 10acjed - 1/31/12 at 7:48am
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post #2713 of 3582
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10acjed View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsout View Post

I think you are comparing something different. I think the argument is that pretty much any card can hit the weak factory oc's like 832mhz. But if you want to bring up the top OC's. Then for sure the ones with better voltage regulation should hit a higher max.


Yeah thats kinda what I figured. 

I wasnt sure if you were talking about overall ability or just factory OC...

The real truth wont be known. However these companies due claim to have select GPU's or "binned" as its put, and they claim to hand pick each one for lowest voltage & heat and best OC..

Gigabyte calls their process "the gauntlet" and actually advertise the process as a selling point of the SOC series.


Quote:
World’s #1 GPU cherry-picking process Only the strongest processors survive the GPU Gauntlet. GIGABYTE’s database analysis system evaluates the GPU core engine, shader engine. The GPUs with the best power efficiency and lowest power consumption are qualified for the Super Overclock Series.
http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3830#ov


Whether it false advertising or not is just an opinion on whether or not we chose to believe them...


They claim to test each one to see which ones will run cool and at the lowest voltage. Typically the lowest default voltage and heat will have the best OC results..

Also consider that a non binned card doesnt mean it wont equal a binned one, being it may have never been tested at these levels, so you can easily buy a vanilla 580 that has the same performance of the GPU on a non reference performance card.. After all in the end they are all just the same GeForce Fermi chips... So much like CPU's some clock better and run cooler than others...






I personally feel that all binning beyond maybe a few select cards is just to hit the factory OC. Gigabyte may be true though. I know with the 560ti they originally had released 1ghz SOC cards. But had problems getting enough chips that could do that clock. To get 1ghz chips would require some significant binning beyond the weak bump that say the evga SC cards get.
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post #2714 of 3582
I agree with Lightsout. Binning is more of a test at that cards clock specs and nothing further. Whether it can OC further is luck of the draw. Vendors don't bin all thier VRAM therefore you can end up with a stock GPU with better OC than the SC version.

I know the for a fact with EVGA speaking with Jacob and Matt. The only cards binned by them are the GTX 580 3GB ULTRA which are garuanteed at 1000Mhz Core. More than that is luck of the draw.

Glad I'm not part of the debate.
     
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post #2715 of 3582
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10acjed View Post

[...]

 

 

Also consider that a non binned card doesnt mean it wont equal a binned one, being it may have never been tested at these levels, so you can easily buy a vanilla 580 that has the same performance of the GPU on a non reference performance card.. After all in the end they are all just the same GeForce Fermi chips... So much like CPU's some clock better and run cooler than others...

 

BINGO.

 

The GF 110 with 16 SMs is going into 580s at 772 MHz+ and also 590s at 607 MHz + (in a dual configuration, which is a different beast entirely).

 

Those GF 110s that don't make the "580 cut" for having 16 SMs @ 772 MHz get thrown into 570s with 1 SM disabled for 15 SMs and have their clock reduced to 732 MHz+ and voila, a 570 is born. That doesn't mean that every 570 has an "inferior" GF 110 that was "rejected" for the 580 line, it just means that a few of the "rejected" 580/590 GF110s might slip into the 570 line. Those GF 110s that don't make the cut for having 15 SMs @ 732MHz+ in a 570 get slated for 560 Ti 448s with only 14 SMs enabled at 732 MHz but that doesn't meant that every 560 Ti 448 has a "rejected 570" GF 110 in them, it just means that a few of them might. Or, all of the 570s might have been "filled" for that day and a rejected 580 that would have met 570 standards gets put into the 560 Ti 448 line, making it a slightly better "reject" than a 570 "reject." And that entire process may be done at the GF 110 manufacturing plant itself, according to the QA standards of whatever assembly company (PNY, PowerColor, Asrock, MSI, Gigabyte, EVGA, etc) is buying that GF 110 to put onto their PCBs at a different plant (or at the same plant on a different assembly line.)

 

And then from there, once each "assembler" has their 560 Ti 448, 570, 580, and 590 assembled, they'll run some more QA on them before they commit they flash the BIOS/Firmware on that card and lock it in at a specific voltage. (That's why one BrandX GTX 580 reference will be at one voltage and another identical brand and model will be at a different voltage.) In that process, the company may find a few cards that require such a low voltage at the reference 772 to be stable that they give them a factory OC up to 797 MHz and ship them out the door with a slightly higher price tag as a "factory overclocked" model, but that's not necessarily "binning."

 

When that company goes to assemble their super extreme overclock edition (MSI Lightning Extreme, EVGA Ultra Classified, etc) then you get a truly hand-picked (truly "binned") card that ships out the door with the premium sticker on it. That's "binning."

 

Nothing says that a lowly vanilla 560 Ti 448 can't have a GF 110 die that is every bit as good as the ultra extreme super overclock elite 580 edition that was hand-binned; It can happen and it does happen. We all have the same GF 110 die in our cards. Folks have gotten their 560 Ti 448s "golden cards" up to the 1.2 GHz range at home overclocking on water, but that's a fairly extreme outlier. Likewise, some people got unlucky with their 560 Ti 448 and got a "turd" of a GF 110 that actually was rejected for the 580/590 and 570 product lines and the poor thing can't even get a 10 MHz overclock without a crazy voltage bump. That's the other extreme outlier and it's also less likely to happen with the reputable manufacturers than it is with the off-brand manufacturers.

 

My point to friend'scatdied is that there are many tiers to QA / QC:

 

By buying from one of the companies with an excellent reputation for quality and excellent warranty service, you're paying for better QA/QC and you're more likely to get a better OC card, even if you are buying a vanilla reference. You're less likely to get a "turd" of a card from one of these companies, even if you're buying a vanilla reference 560 Ti 448. I don't think that he disagrees with me there. Likewise, by buying a slightly factory OC card, such as a "superclocked" from EVGA, which is simply a standard evga 580 with a 25 MHz core overclock and a 42 MHz (after final multiplier) memory overclock, you're paying for just a little bit more QA/QC and you're even more likely to get a better OC card. I know that he disagrees with me here. (Note that I'm not claiming that this card is "binned" per se.) And then at the final stage, where the true "binning" occurs, if you pay for the MSI Lightning Extreme, the EVGA Ultra Classified, or any of the other HWBot top 20 brands, you're getting a truly hand-picked card that has just about the best QA/QC guarantee you can pay for (and you do pay for it). I don't think that he disagrees with me (anymore) on this point.

 

The end-user overclocker (that's us) is willing to put the time and effort into squeezing the most out of whatever it is we buy. This means that we're going to fine-tune our individual card to a much higher degree of performance than the factory ever will (except in the case of those hand-binned elite edition cards) and that's why we're able to, in many cases, meet or exceed the clock speeds of the factory production "elite" versions. We, as overclockers, tend to buy our cards from a vendor with a good reputation and we tend to avoid the run of the mill generic cards, as we're more likely to get quality cards rather than "turds" that way. Because of our buying habits and criteria, we, as overclockers, have a disproportionately good success rate with our overclocks on our reference cards than we would if we just bought a 580 at random from any manufacturer or we shopped for the cheapest bargain-basement 580 that we could find. I'm willing to bet money that if you OC'd 1,000 cards from the cheapest off-brand that makes nvidia reference 580s and then OC'd 1,000 cards from the MSI/EVGA/GIgabyte/etc reputable manufacturers that you'd see disproportionately better results (that were statistically significant) from the latter category than you would from the former. I'm also willing to bet that very few of the off-brand cards would be able to match the clocks of the "super elite extreme" edition cards that are hand-binned.

 

The issue comes when a few hundred overclockers, who may be buying reference, but are buying quality reference all get together and compare results and come to the conclusion that "vanilla reference almost always clock to 832 MHz with ease, so those elite cards aren't that great, based on core speed alone." (Actually, having double the amount of VRAM and also better VRM circuitry and power supplies can be pretty important and so can having the LN2 BIOS setting if that's your cup of tea, but those are different arguments and not the point that friend'scatdied was making.) Yes, we may equal their clocks with ease, but we're starting with better equipment manufacturers than the common off-brand reference cards and we know what we're doing. Most importantly, we're taking the time to go through our own card with a fine toothed comb and we're not charging labor to ourselves and inflating our price tag on our product to compensate for that. I know how many hours I put into getting my card 24/7 stable at 900 MHz and I know that if I was paying myself labor to do it that I'd have been much better off buying a MSI Lightning Extreme, an EVGA Ultra Classified, or one of the other hand-binned supercards from Gigabyte or other manufacturers I'm forgetting to list. However, I had the time to OC and not the money to buy factory super OC and I like to OC, so I didn't get the uber card; instead, I got the lower end card and OCd it myself and acheived ultra classified clock speeds. (Yay, I had good luck.)

 

And in the end, the do-it-yourself OC is what OCN is all about. :)

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post #2716 of 3582
We might come into the discussion about ASIC quality and overclocking potential:

My GPU does 1.0 GHz, BF3 1080P ULTRA stable on 1.13v. Played for more than 80 hours, so I think I can tell you that it works ok.
My record on 3dmark11 is P9200, and I did that running the GPU at 1.07Ghz @ 1.23v.

499

Let us share some ASIC quality and overclocking potential so we can see if it really matters.
BTW: It´s a Gigabyte GTX580 Super Overclock

To read out ASIC quality, download latest GPU-Z, press the left corner to get the roll down panel. Click "Read ASIC quality".
Edited by qwwwizx - 1/31/12 at 11:36am
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post #2717 of 3582

I keep seeing this ASIC Quality thing...

 

How do I get it to show up and should I do it at default clocks or what??

 

My lightning will do 950/1900 @ 1.030v, however I cant seem to get it any higher regardless of voltage.....

 

I got mine from Patch who benched quad SLI under LN2 @ 1235 - 1250MHz somewhere around 1.6v

 drool.gif

 

 


Edited by 10acjed - 1/31/12 at 11:42am
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post #2718 of 3582
I thinks its just a number it read out, so no matter what you do, its the same.
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post #2719 of 3582
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10acjed View Post

I keep seeing this ASIC Quality thing...

How do I get it to show up and should I do it at default clocks or what??

My lightning will do 950/1900 @ 1.030v, however I cant seem to get it any higher regardless of voltage.....

I got mine from Patch who benched quad SLI under LN2 @ 1235 - 1250MHz somewhere around 1.6v
 drool.gif


GPUZ, click the icon in the top left hand corner, it will give you a context menu, down the list, "Read ASIC quality..."

My Gainward GTX 580 cards give 86.3% and 81.1% and will overclock in SLI to 995 core for 3D11.
My Palit GTX 460 cards give 68.0% and 60.6% and will overclock in SLI to 936 core for 3D11
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Microsoft Wireless 3000 Silverstone ST1500 Antec Eleven Hundred Microsoft Wireless 3000 
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Audioengine D1 Premium 24-Bit DAC Audioengine 5+ Premium Powered Speakers Black Audioengine S8 Black 
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post #2720 of 3582

Ah, thanks alan

 

ASIC.jpg

 

93.1% whatever that means....

 

Card does 950/1900 @ 1.1 or so....  Also has been benched at 1250 @ 1.6 under LN2

 

 

 

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