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[EVGA] EVGA GTX 580 Classified - Page 16  

post #151 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post
And here lies the common misconception. If you took 10 cards, reference and non reference and gave them the same cooling capabilities, the best clocker would be totally unpredictable.

When considering a card with a robust reference design like the 580, the GPU is what dictates overclocking capabilities, not the PCB.

If you want a good card for air cooling, get one with a large heatsink that provides the lowest temperatures and hope for a well-clocking GPU.
While true, how many ref. designs can actually handle LN2?

It's a crapshoot worth taking for any enthusiast, especially the hardcore enthusiasts.

Regardless of what's said here...The card will sell out because it can perform above and beyond current stock at cooler temps.

That's just reality.
    
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post #152 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by TickleMeElmo View Post
But that is assuming that there is very little binning done by the AIB partners.
If you talk to Alex from MSI, he has stated many times that binning is a pipe dream. It doesn't happen beyond checking to see if a GPU is stable at stock clocks at a certain voltage. Overclocking capabilities are not tested for retail samples. In fact, the only instances of this for the consumer market that I can come up with is the Gigabyte UD9 having a binned IOH, which highly contributed to its $700 price tag and the 590s because they had to run at such low voltage to stay within the thermal limitations. Beyond that, though, it's all luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post
While true, how many ref. designs can actually handle LN2?

It's a crapshoot worth taking for any enthusiast, especially the hardcore enthusiasts.

Regardless of what's said here...The card will sell out because it can perform above and beyond current stock at cooler temps.

That's just reality.
First, many reference designs do very well with LN2.

Second, my post was regarding air cooling, which you'll see if you read the post I was quoting as well. However, I've edited it to make this more clear.

My point was, if you're buying a card for air cooling, buy the card with the best heatsink. For practical applications, the Reference 580 board is perfect and you will see very little (if any) difference if temperatures are kept in the same range.
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post #153 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post

First, many reference designs do very well with LN2.

Second, my post was regarding air cooling, which you'll see if you read the post I was quoting as well. However, I've edited it to make this more clear.

My point was, if you're buying a card for air cooling, buy the card with the best heatsink. For practical applications, the Reference 580 board is perfect and you will see very little (if any) difference if temperatures are kept in the same range.
As someone whom uses LN2, no they really don't especially not this round.

I think you'd find my opinion supported by others, as well.

Msi cards were terrible, Asus was horrible when cooled...Sorry but, I just cannot support the reference designs + LN2...Especially for Fermi.

This card is DESIGNED specifically for the enthusiast...Not the average user so, all correlations regarding air cooling might as well go out the window.

If someone wants to buy this and use the stock heatsink, to each their own but, it's true design wasn't for that purpose.

That's been true for almost every single classified card yet to date...The wall has always been significantly higher and the quality, as well. More cooling has always been required for the wattage dissapation...Come on, we've been doing this since 04...Same stuff, different day.

I wouldn't expect anything less from EVGA nor should anyone else until we see the results/benches...IMO.
    
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post #154 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post
As someone whom uses LN2, no they really don't especially not this round.

I think you'd find my opinion supported by others, as well.

Msi cards were terrible, Asus was horrible when cooled...Sorry but, I just cannot support the reference designs + LN2...Especially for Fermi.

This card is DESIGNED specifically for the enthusiast...Not the average user so, all correlations regarding air cooling might as well go out the window.

If someone wants to buy this and use the stock heatsink, to each their own but, it's true design wasn't for that purpose.

That's been true for almost every single classified card yet to date...The wall has always been significantly higher and the quality, as well. More cooling has always been required for the wattage dissapation...Come on, we've been doing this since 04...Same stuff, different day.

I wouldn't expect anything less from EVGA nor should anyone else until we see the results/benches...IMO.
You're missing my point entirely. The user I was replying to wanted to buy this card for air cooling because he thought it would clock better on air. I replied saying the reference designed board is fine for air cooling as at the temperatures capable with air cooling, the GPU is the limiting factor, not the PCB.

And I don't know why you think I don't know about LN2, I use it as well. While it's true that this round on the Nvidia side has been a bit different (requiring lots of hard mods to bypass OCP and the like), reference boards have often been quite capable for subzero cooling. Take my Diamond 4890 for example. I'm currently in second place in Vantage for the 4890 and I haven't even used LN2 with it yet. With dice it was good for 1185/1200 through Vantage and 1230/1200 through '03.
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post #155 of 217
From my expierence reference boards are much more stable handle over volting better than none reference boards.

If I was going for pure overclocking I'd buy a reference board then stick a waterblock on it or the best air cooler I could find, ie the Accelero Xtreme Plus.

Reference boards tend to have higher quality VRM's and regulators and so on, making them more stable capable boards.
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post #156 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrillex View Post
From my expierence reference boards are much more stable handle over volting better than none reference boards.

If I was going for pure overclocking I'd buy a reference board then stick a waterblock on it or the best air cooler I could find, ie the Accelero Xtreme Plus.

Reference boards tend to have higher quality VRM's and regulators and so on, making them more stable capable boards.
There are two main types of non-reference boards.

First, there is the budget design. It's made to give you the same GPU in a cheaper package or to increase profits for the manufacturer. See most non-reference XFX ATI cards for this.

The second kind is the one we're dealing with here. It is a board that is much more robust and has much higher quality components (and more of them) than the reference design. It will take more abuse and hold up under higher stress. The EVGA Classified, MSI Lightning, and Asus Direct Cu-II and Matrix are this type of non-reference board.
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post #157 of 217
The name classified doesn't always mean custom PCB. They probably just slap it on whatever they want. The 590 Classified had the reference cooler and PCB...
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post #158 of 217
In case this has not been posted. It looks like EVGA is also making a water block for this card.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/EVGA-...d-210821.shtml
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post #159 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post
You're missing my point entirely. The user I was replying to wanted to buy this card for air cooling because he thought it would clock better on air. I replied saying the reference designed board is fine for air cooling as at the temperatures capable with air cooling, the GPU is the limiting factor, not the PCB.

And I don't know why you think I don't know about LN2, I use it as well. While it's true that this round on the Nvidia side has been a bit different (requiring lots of hard mods to bypass OCP and the like), reference boards have often been quite capable for subzero cooling. Take my Diamond 4890 for example. I'm currently in second place in Vantage for the 4890 and I haven't even used LN2 with it yet. With dice it was good for 1185/1200 through Vantage and 1230/1200 through '03.
I didn't miss your point, I disagree with it.

This card is aimed at enthusiasts...Be it by "air, land or sea", they have the right to use this card however they choose to but, in the EVGA fashion, as always, the roof will be significantly higher or, they wouldn't bother releasing it.

I also don't think you have much experience with Fermi and LN2, it's not something most people do. This round Fermi has failed in all accounts when it comes to LN2...Period.

I'm not trying to insult you, I'm coming from an enthusiast office where I bench the living crap out of Alienware PC's and for "fun" we take our best systems and LN2 them. I order 1 of every new card and the interns have at it.

Fermi is by far the worst ref. PCB I've experienced in the past 7 years. The tolerances are different, massive modifications are necessary and the quality is absolutely horrible compared to previous releases.

Hell, you can take 2 of the SAME card in the same production line and their tolerances are so different you'd think it was an A batch and an E batch.

The 480 series was a substantially better card in all facets of LN2, especially when it came to quality, tolerances and overclocking room.

The 4890 was an amazing card, I will give you hands down the quality of ATI has been substantially better the past couple runs...I won't even begin to argue that because I absolutely agree.

My point is simply, EVGA always tends to have the best offering, I don't see this as being any different under any medium; "Air, land, or sea".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennobanzai View Post
The name classified doesn't always mean custom PCB. They probably just slap it on whatever they want. The 590 Classified had the reference cooler and PCB...
I think we need a neg rep button for people whom fail to read and/or view the source information prior to posting.
Edited by Masked - 7/11/11 at 11:39am
    
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post #160 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post
I didn't miss your point, I disagree with it.

This card is aimed at enthusiasts...Be it by "air, land or sea", they have the right to use this card however they choose to but, in the EVGA fashion, as always, the roof will be significantly higher or, they wouldn't bother releasing it.

I also don't think you have much experience with Fermi and LN2, it's not something most people do. This round Fermi has failed in all accounts when it comes to LN2...Period.

I'm not trying to insult you, I'm coming from an enthusiast office where I bench the living crap out of Alienware PC's and for "fun" we take our best systems and LN2 them. I order 1 of every new card and the interns have at it.

Fermi is by far the worst ref. PCB I've experienced in the past 7 years. The tolerances are different, massive modifications are necessary and the quality is absolutely horrible compared to previous releases.

Hell, you can take 2 of the SAME card in the same production line and their tolerances are so different you'd think it was an A batch and an E batch.

The 480 series was a substantially better card in all facets of LN2, especially when it came to quality, tolerances and overclocking room.

The 4890 was an amazing card, I will give you hands down the quality of ATI has been substantially better the past couple runs...I won't even begin to argue that because I absolutely agree.

My point is simply, EVGA always tends to have the best offering, I don't see this as being any different under any medium; "Air, land, or sea".



I think we need a neg rep button for people whom fail to read and/or view the source information prior to posting.
Talk about irony if you're directing that at me. Bassplayer implied Classified, Lightning, DirectCu/Matrix are usually non-reference cards and I just wanted to cleared it up.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [EVGA] EVGA GTX 580 Classified