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Silverstone TJ08-E Owners Club. - Page 245

post #2441 of 7172
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66racer View Post

a HIGH quality one should be fine but which gpu are you gonna run? Last time I checked my system (2012 nerd box) games bf3 ultra at 350watts at the wall using a kill o watt meter to test.

Thanks for the input. I've revised my plan and am going to run a MSI N680GTX Lightning GeForce GTX 680. It seems to be the king of 680's right now. Hopefully that PSU will jive with it.
post #2442 of 7172
most people never use more then 50% of their rated PSU power even when gaming. a quality PSU like the seasonicX can supply their rated power continuously at a very tight voltage regulation. a bad/cheap PSU might not even deliver 1/3 of their rated power and doing so poorly at that.

the key to remember when selecting PSU is quality before quantity. a quality unit can deliver more / cleaner power then the cheap unit at twice the rated power. so what you NEED to remember is just how much power you are actually using. so lets do some simple math.

a 3770K processor has a TDP of 77 watts.
a 680 GTX has a TDP of 195 watts
the rest of your system will use MAYBE 100 watts if you are going pretty heavy with fans/HDD/RAM etc...

simple math = 77 + 195 + 100 = 372 watts

just for ****s and giggles, lets go SLi on that and throw in another 680GTX

77 + 195 + 195 + 100 = 567 watts

remember when i said a quality PSU (like the seasonicX) CAN deliver their rated 650W power and doing so with very tight voltage regulation too? biggrin.gif

THAT leaves you with around 80 watts of safety net. the safety net is alot more actually, since only synthetic loads (prime95, 3dmarks, furmark, etc...) can even come close to using the TDP of the components you use. and that's not counting the fact that most of the time your fans/HDD/etc are NOT using full power anyway.

people really should start learning math when it comes to selecting PSU's biggrin.gif remember quality before quantity.
Edited by psyclum - 8/3/12 at 4:05pm
post #2443 of 7172
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

most people never use more then 50% of their rated PSU power even when gaming. a quality PSU like the seasonicX can supply their rated power continuously at a very tight voltage regulation. a bad/cheap PSU might not even deliver 1/3 of their rated power and doing so poorly at that.
the key to remember when selecting PSU is quality before quantity. a quality unit can deliver more / cleaner power then the cheap unit at twice the rated power. so what you NEED to remember is just how much power you are actually using. so lets do some simple math.
a 3770K processor has a TDP of 77 watts.
a 680 GTX has a TDP of 195 watts
the rest of your system will use MAYBE 100 watts if you are going pretty heavy with fans/HDD/RAM etc...
simple math = 77 + 195 + 100 = 372 watts
just for ****s and giggles, lets go SLi on that and throw in another 680GTX
77 + 195 + 195 + 100 = 567 watts
remember when i said a quality PSU (like the seasonicX) CAN deliver their rated 650W power and doing so with very tight voltage regulation too? biggrin.gif
THAT leaves you with around 80 watts of safety net. the safety net is alot more actually, since only synthetic loads (prime95, 3dmarks, furmark, etc...) can even come close to using the TDP of the components you use. and that's not counting the fact that most of the time your fans/HDD/etc are NOT using full power anyway.
people really should start learning math when it comes to selecting PSU's biggrin.gif remember quality before quantity.

Very well put.
post #2444 of 7172
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

most people never use more then 50% of their rated PSU power even when gaming. a quality PSU like the seasonicX can supply their rated power continuously at a very tight voltage regulation. a bad/cheap PSU might not even deliver 1/3 of their rated power and doing so poorly at that.
the key to remember when selecting PSU is quality before quantity. a quality unit can deliver more / cleaner power then the cheap unit at twice the rated power. so what you NEED to remember is just how much power you are actually using. so lets do some simple math. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
a 3770K processor has a TDP of 77 watts.
a 680 GTX has a TDP of 195 watts
the rest of your system will use MAYBE 100 watts if you are going pretty heavy with fans/HDD/RAM etc...
simple math = 77 + 195 + 100 = 372 watts
just for ****s and giggles, lets go SLi on that and throw in another 680GTX
77 + 195 + 195 + 100 = 567 watts
remember when i said a quality PSU (like the seasonicX) CAN deliver their rated 650W power and doing so with very tight voltage regulation too? biggrin.gif
THAT leaves you with around 80 watts of safety net. the safety net is alot more actually, since only synthetic loads (prime95, 3dmarks, furmark, etc...) can even come close to using the TDP of the components you use. and that's not counting the fact that most of the time your fans/HDD/etc are NOT using full power anyway.
people really should start learning math when it comes to selecting PSU's biggrin.gif remember quality before quantity.

Yeah I have seen some psu reviews that literally cant put out more than 2/3 their advertised rating let alone on a continous amount. To me its all about clean voltage and the right amount of it. When on a budget its about quality over quantity like you mentioned since a good psu can usually even exceed its rating its just the efficiency that suffers/more heat, but neither of us would recommend doing that for normal use either, its just that good psu's really do hit the numbers and then some.

*disclaimer: I got my psu when I had an 8150 and planning on sli my old 570 lol. Plus I got a smokin deal on the ax850 smile.gif Im also a believer in getting the most you can afford and not needing to upgrade in the future since I change components often. Gaming my meter reports about 350watts at the wall on bf3 which is pretty demanding
2014 nerd box evo
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2014 nerd box evo
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post #2445 of 7172
yah the corsair AX and the seasonicX are pretty much neck to neck on quality. on a more silent note, (not that either the seasonicX nor the AX are loud to begin with) the kingwin stryker is also a top rated PSU for silent operation. but the price tag definitely reflect on the kingwin for its quality biggrin.gif
post #2446 of 7172
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

yah the corsair AX and the seasonicX are pretty much neck to neck on quality. on a more silent note, (not that either the seasonicX nor the AX are loud to begin with) the kingwin stryker is also a top rated PSU for silent operation. but the price tag definitely reflect on the kingwin for its quality biggrin.gif

If not mistaken I think seasonic makes the ax850, I know they make some of the AX line and had another solid company do some of their 1000watt + units. I forgot its been a while since I studied the psu market biggrin.gif
2014 nerd box evo
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2014 nerd box evo
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corsair f120ssd/seagate 1TB Asus cd/dvd burner Antec Kuhler 920 semi-custom loop (2 radiators) win7 professional 64bit 
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post #2447 of 7172
Seasonic X series = Corsair AX series. They're basically the damn same. They both have hybrid fan control; but the Seasonic has a switch to turn it off; the Corsair's is just built it. Seasonic has a better fan algorithm than Corsairs; I think because Corsair changes theirs? I'm not sure.

Using TDP to calculate power use is solid; but somewhat flawed... As TDP doesn't directly equate to power draw. Especially also consider this; 77W for the Ivy proc INCLUDES the IGP. Take away the IGP; it's around 55w. Same for Sandy. It's around 60W for sandy bridge without the IGP (stock being 95w). Though you also have to compensate for aging. Any good quality PSU will still output its rated wattage for many years; but you may slowly lose efficiency and the ripple might go out a tiny bit more than its original. So I'd say for GTX 670 SLI with ivy; go for 650W. (A quality 650W). For SLI 680's consider 750w.

Also remembering the best efficiency point is 50-60%. Most PSU's are best at 20-80%; though higher end Gold units tend to also maintain their efficiency at full 100% loading as well.

And also the say; 77w TDP on the i7 3770k doesn't include Overclocking which throws everything out. But even then; in any given gaming situation you'll never be fully stressing the CPU (Assuming a gaming build); so realistically just account for around 100W on a mildly OC'd Ivy proc.

Some people calculate use/need of PSU by the MAX parts can draw. But I think that's stupid. Unless you're folding or something like that; or running furmark 20 hours a day; it'll never 'peak' at it's max for any given situation. CPU or GPU. E.G My GTX 580 averages 210-230w power draw as a max in any given gaming scenario. BUT add furmark in; It's well over 300w. Meaning to calculate for SLI would suggest you'd require a minimum of 850w; though 750w would be easily enough. Furmark is unrealistic anyway. Horrible program!
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MahRig
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post #2448 of 7172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post

Seasonic X series = Corsair AX series. They're basically the damn same. They both have hybrid fan control; but the Seasonic has a switch to turn it off; the Corsair's is just built it. Seasonic has a better fan algorithm than Corsairs; I think because Corsair changes theirs? I'm not sure.
Using TDP to calculate power use is solid; but somewhat flawed... As TDP doesn't directly equate to power draw. Especially also consider this; 77W for the Ivy proc INCLUDES the IGP. Take away the IGP; it's around 55w. Same for Sandy. It's around 60W for sandy bridge without the IGP (stock being 95w). Though you also have to compensate for aging. Any good quality PSU will still output its rated wattage for many years; but you may slowly lose efficiency and the ripple might go out a tiny bit more than its original. So I'd say for GTX 670 SLI with ivy; go for 650W. (A quality 650W). For SLI 680's consider 750w.
Also remembering the best efficiency point is 50-60%. Most PSU's are best at 20-80%; though higher end Gold units tend to also maintain their efficiency at full 100% loading as well.
And also the say; 77w TDP on the i7 3770k doesn't include Overclocking which throws everything out. But even then; in any given gaming situation you'll never be fully stressing the CPU (Assuming a gaming build); so realistically just account for around 100W on a mildly OC'd Ivy proc.
Some people calculate use/need of PSU by the MAX parts can draw. But I think that's stupid. Unless you're folding or something like that; or running furmark 20 hours a day; it'll never 'peak' at it's max for any given situation. CPU or GPU. E.G My GTX 580 averages 210-230w power draw as a max in any given gaming scenario. BUT add furmark in; It's well over 300w. Meaning to calculate for SLI would suggest you'd require a minimum of 850w; though 750w would be easily enough. Furmark is unrealistic anyway. Horrible program!

I use TDP for calculation mostly because we OC, but we almost never use IGP smile.gif so it kinda balances things out for wattage. it's a good measuring stick. as for OCing. i'm not sure what clock you are running but i don't think you can get that much power draw at the wall even on heavy OC. most people tend to think they use more power then what's actually being pulled out of the wall even on furmark/d3mark/etc... the most power you'd use is during the burn in period when you run all your benches anyway. so if it passes that, you'll never use more then the capability of your PSU.

i know seasonic makes some corsair PSU's. i just didn't know which ones. I guess the AX850 is one of them. so yah, they are neck to neck in quality because they are essentially twins biggrin.gif
post #2449 of 7172
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

I use TDP for calculation mostly because we OC, but we almost never use IGP smile.gif so it kinda balances things out for wattage. it's a good measuring stick. as for OCing. i'm not sure what clock you are running but i don't think you can get that much power draw at the wall even on heavy OC. most people tend to think they use more power then what's actually being pulled out of the wall even on furmark/d3mark/etc... the most power you'd use is during the burn in period when you run all your benches anyway. so if it passes that, you'll never use more then the capability of your PSU.
i know seasonic makes some corsair PSU's. i just didn't know which ones. I guess the AX850 is one of them. so yah, they are neck to neck in quality because they are essentially twins biggrin.gif

What do you mean what clock? The 580 is notorious for being a power hog under furmark (not that I'd ever use it). In BF3 with my sig rig; I pull 350w from the wall (300 from the PSU accounting approximately for efficiency). GPU load 99%; I assume CPU load 60-70%? + the rest of the system.

I'd have to be running a 580 under water with insane OC voltages to get anywhere near 300w gaming x.x I don't remember where I read it; but it took like 1.225v on a 580 on an MSI lightning under water (I think) to get 280w average power draw in any given gaming scenario. But ya.
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MahRig
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post #2450 of 7172
i think we are both saying the same thing but from different points of view. reality is we don't ever pull the combined TDP of the components used even under heavy OC due to usage pattern. is it possible to pull more then TDP? yes. OC + synthetic load. but you also pointed out the fact that nobody uses furmark continuously on a daily basis smile.gif the most people ever draw is 350w during game load. and that's considering you are talking about the notorious power hog that is the 580. 6xx or the 79xx chips with 28nm tech runs cooler from an architectural point of view. can you OC it to a point to make it run hot? sure push anything far enough it'll run hot. but the fact is on a stable build, you are not likely to see greater then combined TDP of the components used. TDP is not the most accurate measurement for power draw. but on average it's a good measuring stick to remind people just how little power we actually use. (and how there is almost no reason to buy a 1kw+ PSU due to ATX specification limitations tongue.gif )
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