Overclock.net › Forums › Case Mods & Cases › Computer Cases › Silverstone TJ08-E Owners Club.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Silverstone TJ08-E Owners Club. - Page 705

post #7041 of 7178
Interesting idea. The fans appear to be Noctua NF-A9 PWM units. In terms of just area, four 92 mm fans have just 4.5 % more area than a single 180 mm fan like the original Silverstone AP181, but that's not the whole story. I bet they cool a lot better.

The specifications for the AP181 state that at its maximum speed of 1200 rpm it produces 130 CFM at a static pressure of 2.45 mm H2O, with a sound level of 34 dBA.

The specifications for the NF-A9 PWM state that at its maximum speed of 2000 rpm it produces 46.4 CFM (78.9 m3/h) at a pressure of 2.28 mm H2O and 22.8 dBA.

Having 4 NF-A9 fans means the airflow will be higher, let's say 4 times a single fan which would be 185.6 CFM. This is likely an overly simplistic result. According to The Engineering Toolbox website, the sound level of 4 identical 22.8 dBA fans would be 28.8 dBA.

So if there are no reverberations induced by the mounting system, the four 92 mm fans will produce 40% more airflow at slightly less air pressure, for less noise. All it takes is money and a bit of work.

How does this compare to your experiences with this setup?
Edited by Qrash - 9/24/16 at 7:54pm
Is It Done Yet?
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K Asus Maximus GENE V Asus GTX770-DC2OC-2GD5 Mushkin 16GB Dual Channel Kit Frostbyte 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 256GB Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB (WD2002FAEX) Panasonic UJ-265 Corsair H80i 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair SP120 Quiet Edition (x2) Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Dell UltraSharp 2410 Logitech K740 Illuminated Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec EarthWatts EA-650 Platinum SilverStone Temjin TJ08-E Logitech Performance Mouse MX Creative X-Fi Titanium HD 
OtherOther
SilverStone FP58 Bitfenix SuperSpeed USB 3.0 Card Reader 
  hide details  
Reply
Is It Done Yet?
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K Asus Maximus GENE V Asus GTX770-DC2OC-2GD5 Mushkin 16GB Dual Channel Kit Frostbyte 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 256GB Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB (WD2002FAEX) Panasonic UJ-265 Corsair H80i 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair SP120 Quiet Edition (x2) Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Dell UltraSharp 2410 Logitech K740 Illuminated Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec EarthWatts EA-650 Platinum SilverStone Temjin TJ08-E Logitech Performance Mouse MX Creative X-Fi Titanium HD 
OtherOther
SilverStone FP58 Bitfenix SuperSpeed USB 3.0 Card Reader 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7042 of 7178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qrash View Post

Interesting idea. The fans appear to be Noctua NF-A9 PWM units. In terms of just area, four 92 mm fans have just 4.5 % more area than a single 180 mm fan like the original Silverstone AP181, but that's not the whole story. I bet they cool a lot better.

The specifications for the AP181 state that at its maximum speed of 1200 rpm it produces 130 CFM at a static pressure of 2.45 mm H2O, with a sound level of 34 dBA.

The specifications for the NF-A9 PWM state that at its maximum speed of 2000 rpm it produces 46.4 CFM (78.9 m3/h) at a pressure of 2.28 mm H2O and 22.8 dBA.

Having 4 NF-A9 fans means the airflow will be higher, let's say 4 times a single fan which would be 185.6 CFM. This is likely an overly simplistic result. According to The Engineering Toolbox website, the sound level of 4 identical 22.8 dBA fans would be 28.8 dBA.

So if there are no reverberations induced by the mounting system, the four 92 mm fans will produce 40% more airflow at slightly less air pressure, for less noise. All it takes is money and a bit of work.

How does this compare to your experiences with this setup?
They do indeed push more air at a much lower noise level, the noise is also a more pleasant tone to the ears, and I have them currently running on a fan profile through the motherboards header (All of the fans apart from the PSU are running on PWM fan curve profiles)..when the PC idles, I can barely hear it at all, just a very low hum.

It really wasn't a difficult mod to do, provided one has the right tools, and I think its much better than the single AP-181...provided you are using aircooling, The single 180mm radiator would probably be better than dual 184mm rads? Or maybe that is another mod for me to try.

For now I would like to shoe-horn my 1250W psu up into the top with the optical dive and 3.5 and 2.5" drives up top as well...and need a PSU extender, not sure to go with the Lian Li one or the CM one?
post #7043 of 7178
Uh-Oh...I am getting ideas for a water loop involving 2x 184mm rads, a 240/280mm rad, and a 120mm rad...possibly all fitting inside my TJ08-E...
post #7044 of 7178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qrash View Post

Interesting idea. The fans appear to be Noctua NF-A9 PWM units. In terms of just area, four 92 mm fans have just 4.5 % more area than a single 180 mm fan like the original Silverstone AP181, but that's not the whole story. I bet they cool a lot better...

Claimed specifications/actual fan performance and subjective experience aside, you actually need to also take into account of "volume" of air instead of just surface area when comparing how much airflow different sized fans push. Since fan's opening is round, not square, four 92mm fans do not actually have more "usable surface area" for air to pass through than a 180mm fan:

180mm fan has roughly an internal radius cut out of 82.5mm which gives you
~ 21382mm2 of surface area

92mm fan has roughly an internal radius cut out of 41.25mm which gives you
~ 5346mm2 of surface area

So four 92mm fans will have surface area of ~ 21384mm2 (5346mm2 x 4), which equates to about 0.01% larger than 180mm fan's surface area without taking into account of the fan hubs in the way. Assuming both 180mm fan and 92mm fans have proportionally the same fan hub sizes, you will end up with having more usable surface area for the lone 180mm fan compared to four 92mm fans.



Finally, you'll also need to take into account that AP181 is a 32mm thick fan, so it has decisively more volume of air that it can move per revolution than a normal sized 25mm thick 92mm fan. Again below is rough estimated volume without taking fan hub into account:

AP181 has (21382mm2 surface area x 32mm thickness = 684224mm3)
~ 0.68 liters of volume

Four standard 92mm x 25mm fans have (21384mm2 surface area x 25mm thickness = 534600mm3)
~ 0.53 liters of volume

So all in all, you are technically looking at a deficit of around 22% less airflow to work with when you move from a AP181 down to four 92mm fans.
Edited by SilverStone - 9/25/16 at 10:33pm
post #7045 of 7178
I think a lot of people's problems with the AP181 stem from the fact that a lot of mainboard fan controllers don't let you turn your case-fans down below 60% by default, which is overkill for an idling machine. (Looking at my ASUS board here.)

After I installed speedfan I could use the full range and I found that 30% speed was enough for idle.

Also, while a Silverstone rep is here, I do have a question regarding 180mm fans.

I recently got a used Silverstone FT02 and I'm watercooling it with a triple 180 rad. Currently I'm using the three AP181's in pull, but I'm wondering if push would've been better?
post #7046 of 7178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seel View Post

I think a lot of people's problems with the AP181 stem from the fact that a lot of mainboard fan controllers don't let you turn your case-fans down below 60% by default, which is overkill for an idling machine.
I've tried my AP181 on two different boards, one Z77 and Z97, both from ASUS, and it would idle down as low as 500-600RPM with the switch set on low. That's not too bad, is it? Of course Speedfan offers a much larger range of operation.

Just in case the rep comes back, I'd like to ask a couple of questions a well:
Is FM181 EOL? If yes, why?
Have the AP181 specs been changed in the past few years or is it still the same exact fan? I've had mine running since ~2012 and I think it's starting to show its age, considering some replacements.
Edited by Loladinas - 9/26/16 at 11:00pm
Roided midgit
(10 items)
 
Midgit
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770k Asus P8Z77I-Deluxe MSI Radeon RX 480 GAMING X Crucial Ballistix XT 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Crucial M500 Noctua NH-D14 Noctua NF-F12 PWM Noctua NF-F12 PWM 
CoolingCoolingPowerCase
Noctua NF-B9 PWM Noctua NF-B9 PWM Corsair SF600 Fractal Node 304 
  hide details  
Reply
Roided midgit
(10 items)
 
Midgit
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770k Asus P8Z77I-Deluxe MSI Radeon RX 480 GAMING X Crucial Ballistix XT 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Crucial M500 Noctua NH-D14 Noctua NF-F12 PWM Noctua NF-F12 PWM 
CoolingCoolingPowerCase
Noctua NF-B9 PWM Noctua NF-B9 PWM Corsair SF600 Fractal Node 304 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7047 of 7178
TUFbox
(17 items)
 
whiteTUF
(16 items)
 
Mini TUF
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4770k Asus Gryphon Z87 Palit GTX 1060 Jetstream Kingston HyperX Fury DDR3 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial BX100 Samsung 840 WD Red Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer 120 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 64-bit Asus MG279Q Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth EVGA GQ650 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Corsair Carbide Air 240 Razer Deathadder Chroma Sennheiser HD 558 Creative T40 
Audio
Antlion Modmic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4770k Asus Gryphon Z87 XFX R9 Nano Kingston HyperX Fury DDR3 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial BX100 Samsung 840 Western Digital Red Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer 120 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 64-bit Asus MG279Q Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth EVGA GQ 650W 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Silverstone TJ08e-w Razer Deathadder Chroma Sennheiser HD558 Antlion Modmic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4670k Asus Z87 Gryphon EVGA GTX 970 ACX 2.0 Kingston 8GB HyperX Anniversary 1600MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Black 2TB Crucial BX100 250GB Samsung 840 250GB Coolink Corator DS w/ Noctua NF-P14r Redux 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noiseblocker PL1 Windows 10 64-bit Seasonic G-550 Cooltek U3 silver Windowed 
  hide details  
Reply
TUFbox
(17 items)
 
whiteTUF
(16 items)
 
Mini TUF
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4770k Asus Gryphon Z87 Palit GTX 1060 Jetstream Kingston HyperX Fury DDR3 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial BX100 Samsung 840 WD Red Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer 120 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 64-bit Asus MG279Q Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth EVGA GQ650 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Corsair Carbide Air 240 Razer Deathadder Chroma Sennheiser HD 558 Creative T40 
Audio
Antlion Modmic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4770k Asus Gryphon Z87 XFX R9 Nano Kingston HyperX Fury DDR3 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial BX100 Samsung 840 Western Digital Red Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer 120 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 64-bit Asus MG279Q Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth EVGA GQ 650W 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Silverstone TJ08e-w Razer Deathadder Chroma Sennheiser HD558 Antlion Modmic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4670k Asus Z87 Gryphon EVGA GTX 970 ACX 2.0 Kingston 8GB HyperX Anniversary 1600MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Black 2TB Crucial BX100 250GB Samsung 840 250GB Coolink Corator DS w/ Noctua NF-P14r Redux 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noiseblocker PL1 Windows 10 64-bit Seasonic G-550 Cooltek U3 silver Windowed 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7048 of 7178
I see you have the Arctic Liquid Freezer 120 installed. I was wondering if that would fit because the radiator (49 mm thick) plus 2 fans is a total thickness of ~100 mm. I wasn't sure there would still be room for the hoses coming out of the top of the CPU block. Nice to see that it all fits. How do you like that cooler compared to your previous Coolink Corator DS (which I'd never heard of before)?
Is It Done Yet?
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K Asus Maximus GENE V Asus GTX770-DC2OC-2GD5 Mushkin 16GB Dual Channel Kit Frostbyte 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 256GB Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB (WD2002FAEX) Panasonic UJ-265 Corsair H80i 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair SP120 Quiet Edition (x2) Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Dell UltraSharp 2410 Logitech K740 Illuminated Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec EarthWatts EA-650 Platinum SilverStone Temjin TJ08-E Logitech Performance Mouse MX Creative X-Fi Titanium HD 
OtherOther
SilverStone FP58 Bitfenix SuperSpeed USB 3.0 Card Reader 
  hide details  
Reply
Is It Done Yet?
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K Asus Maximus GENE V Asus GTX770-DC2OC-2GD5 Mushkin 16GB Dual Channel Kit Frostbyte 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 256GB Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB (WD2002FAEX) Panasonic UJ-265 Corsair H80i 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Corsair SP120 Quiet Edition (x2) Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Dell UltraSharp 2410 Logitech K740 Illuminated Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec EarthWatts EA-650 Platinum SilverStone Temjin TJ08-E Logitech Performance Mouse MX Creative X-Fi Titanium HD 
OtherOther
SilverStone FP58 Bitfenix SuperSpeed USB 3.0 Card Reader 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7049 of 7178
@Qrash Very good cooler especially price considered. Fans are pretty quiet even full rpm (~1350) and pump is virtually silent. Not any quieter than the air cooler but a bit cooler. The main reason I got the aio was getting the hot air from the CPU straight out of the case. The corator ds is made by same OEM as noctua heatsinks and uses the secufirm like noctua.
TUFbox
(17 items)
 
whiteTUF
(16 items)
 
Mini TUF
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4770k Asus Gryphon Z87 Palit GTX 1060 Jetstream Kingston HyperX Fury DDR3 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial BX100 Samsung 840 WD Red Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer 120 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 64-bit Asus MG279Q Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth EVGA GQ650 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Corsair Carbide Air 240 Razer Deathadder Chroma Sennheiser HD 558 Creative T40 
Audio
Antlion Modmic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4770k Asus Gryphon Z87 XFX R9 Nano Kingston HyperX Fury DDR3 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial BX100 Samsung 840 Western Digital Red Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer 120 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 64-bit Asus MG279Q Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth EVGA GQ 650W 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Silverstone TJ08e-w Razer Deathadder Chroma Sennheiser HD558 Antlion Modmic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4670k Asus Z87 Gryphon EVGA GTX 970 ACX 2.0 Kingston 8GB HyperX Anniversary 1600MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Black 2TB Crucial BX100 250GB Samsung 840 250GB Coolink Corator DS w/ Noctua NF-P14r Redux 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noiseblocker PL1 Windows 10 64-bit Seasonic G-550 Cooltek U3 silver Windowed 
  hide details  
Reply
TUFbox
(17 items)
 
whiteTUF
(16 items)
 
Mini TUF
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4770k Asus Gryphon Z87 Palit GTX 1060 Jetstream Kingston HyperX Fury DDR3 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial BX100 Samsung 840 WD Red Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer 120 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 64-bit Asus MG279Q Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth EVGA GQ650 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Corsair Carbide Air 240 Razer Deathadder Chroma Sennheiser HD 558 Creative T40 
Audio
Antlion Modmic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4770k Asus Gryphon Z87 XFX R9 Nano Kingston HyperX Fury DDR3 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial BX100 Samsung 840 Western Digital Red Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer 120 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 64-bit Asus MG279Q Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth EVGA GQ 650W 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Silverstone TJ08e-w Razer Deathadder Chroma Sennheiser HD558 Antlion Modmic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4670k Asus Z87 Gryphon EVGA GTX 970 ACX 2.0 Kingston 8GB HyperX Anniversary 1600MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Black 2TB Crucial BX100 250GB Samsung 840 250GB Coolink Corator DS w/ Noctua NF-P14r Redux 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noiseblocker PL1 Windows 10 64-bit Seasonic G-550 Cooltek U3 silver Windowed 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7050 of 7178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seel View Post

I think a lot of people's problems with the AP181 stem from the fact that a lot of mainboard fan controllers don't let you turn your case-fans down below 60% by default, which is overkill for an idling machine. (Looking at my ASUS board here.)

After I installed speedfan I could use the full range and I found that 30% speed was enough for idle.

Also, while a Silverstone rep is here, I do have a question regarding 180mm fans.

I recently got a used Silverstone FT02 and I'm watercooling it with a triple 180 rad. Currently I'm using the three AP181's in pull, but I'm wondering if push would've been better?

From our experience, most of the time you get better performance by having fans pushing air into the radiator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loladinas View Post

I've tried my AP181 on two different boards, one Z77 and Z97, both from ASUS, and it would idle down as low as 500-600RPM with the switch set on low. That's not too bad, is it? Of course Speedfan offers a much larger range of operation.

Just in case the rep comes back, I'd like to ask a couple of questions a well:
Is FM181 EOL? If yes, why?
Have the AP181 specs been changed in the past few years or is it still the same exact fan? I've had mine running since ~2012 and I think it's starting to show its age, considering some replacements.

As shown in AP181's product page Q&A, you get greater fan speed range by setting its speed switch to high. But looks like you were able to get your AP181 to spin down to 500rpm even at low so you should be good there too.

The FM181 is still available for purchase at places like Amazon in the US. Since AP182's debut, the demand for FM181 has lessen so some of our distributors may have switched over to carry only AP182 as the AP181 alternative.

There also have been no changes made to the AP181.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Computer Cases
Overclock.net › Forums › Case Mods & Cases › Computer Cases › Silverstone TJ08-E Owners Club.