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[In] Playstation 4 To Utilize Kinect - Page 9

post #81 of 109
I suspect MS realizes they will never get devs to make any serious games that use kinect as more than just a gimmeck unless kinect becomes a cross platform thing. That said, I think motion control is on the way out. We have experienced enough of it to realize that it was a nice distraction for a while but people who want to play real games dont want to do it that way (and due to imput lag it is arguable not even possible). The only thing about any of the motion control things out there that really should stick around IMO is the wiimote being able to function as a pointer. All the shake/tilt nonsense could simply be replaced with more buttons (the wiimote actually has less functions than a regular ps3/360 controller if you subtract the pointer function). Why shake a remote when I can just push a putton instead? It was cool at first because it was impressive. Now its old news and gamers understand that it doesnt really work for gaming.
    
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post #82 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby1 View Post
I suspect MS realizes they will never get devs to make any serious games that use kinect as more than just a gimmeck unless kinect becomes a cross platform thing. That said, I think motion control is on the way out. Now its old news and gamers understand that it doesnt really work for gaming.
Go look up upcoming Kinect titles.

Tell me how your foot tastes. LOL

The fact that a Kinect supplements a regular controller and does not replace it, makes none of that true. It brings new gamers in that would not have played games with all-kinect controlled titles. And supplements hardcore gamers with hand movements and voice control recognition while still using a controller.

Upcoming Mature rated games like Ghost Recon, Haunt, & RYSE look great. Forza 4 is Kinect enabled. Fable: The Journey is another one. Mass Effect 3 will allow you to motion your squad and give orders much like Ghost Recon. GR:Future Soldier will also allow you to create weapons via Kinect

The Kinect has a bright future. The Move however... I just a better Wii-Mote. We saw how that one goes.
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post #83 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by DizturbedOne View Post
After trying both motion devices, (I have both consoles) I got the Kinect. The Move had better games for it at the time, but I could tell the Kinect was so much more than an accurate Wii-Mote without wires. Not only that, I saw it had the potential to be a Move by simply adding a controller, rather than vice versa with a Move.

The Move is JUST as limited, if not MORE so. Sure, it works good as a shooter peripheral or a golf club, but total body movement? NO. We've had the Move before, in lightguns and Wii-Motes with Motion Plus attachments. With a Kinect, you can play DODGE BALL with your ENTIRE BODY. Imagine what developers can do with that. The Move does NOT have the potential of the Kinect at all.
Actually, the Move does have the ability of tracking your entire body. Not only does it have the Move controller to track your estimated position but the PS Eye has the capability as well. It may not be as accurate but to play something like Dodgeball with your body it would be fine. Infact, there has been Eyetoy games on the PS2 that do exactly the same.

Quote:
The Kinect has ALL of the potential of the Move. They could sell a cheap rifle shooter peripheral or controller like the Move (hopefully without the dildo) and blast the Move out of the water with all of the other stuff it can do piled on top. It is already accurate as all hell, you will see it implemented better very soon, look up Forza 4 and RISE, the Eyetoy was never this accurate.
Except the EyeToy is/was 5+ year old technology and you're saying it isn't as good as the cutting edge 3D vision dual camera Kinect. Seriously?
As for things like Forza, you have no idea how that will play and if it will even be remotely decent. Just because they CLAIM they will have support doesn't mean that it supports anything you say.

Quote:
The Move had an easier time implementing because the mechanics have been done before in every lightgun shooter game in the world since the 90's and Wii games, just more accurate. Put a tracking light in your hand with the Kinect and you will see REAL accuracy and PRECISE depth perception (knowing the exact size of the peripheral will enable it to be VERY precise) and REAL freedom of movement to do anything in game development.
And here you're wrong again.
The Move does exactly all of that. It does depth perception - thats the entire point of the ball on top of the Move. That ball or 'dildo' as you said isn't there for looks. It allows the Eye to tell exactly where on a 3D plane your controller is. They didn't choose a sphere over a... cube or pyramid for no reason. If you've actually used the Move, you'd know this. It's very evident in several PS Move games, especially ones like Tumbler. Tumbler's entire premise is around this. It's like playing an extreme version of Jenga, you can pull/stack/rotate objects at virtually any angle or depth. It's all freedom of movement and depth perception.
To even try to say that the Move isn't "real accuracy" is above and beyond unreal too. You clearly have no education on what tech is in the Move or how its even used.

Quote:
For the Move to do that, they have to sell you ANOTHER expensive 150 dollar peripheral to REPLACE the Eyetoy you currently use. They shot themselves in the foot with that, it is not futureproof.
Actually, it is. You just said it yourself. They could sell you an upgraded EyeToy that is exactly like the Kinect or most likely better that would also use the Move so you get the best of both worlds. That is called futureproofing.
The Move technology could remain the same, as well as software. If the need arises, you could just upgrade the camera to supplement the Move for something or an addon to the controller itself. You don't need to buy a Move 2.
Same thing with the Wii. MotionPlus is the perfect example of futureproofing. Nintendo was able to make their Wiimotes a little more accurate and three dimensional with an additional peripheral instead of having to buy a whole new Wii or Wiimote. Futureproof. Hell even the Wii U will be using the same controllers. Double futureproof.

Quote:
I know 1 person with a Move, he is the only person interested in one.
Everyone I know has a Kinect and if they don't, they want one because they've played one. It's more infectious than the Wii, with FAR more potential for the hardcore gamers.
I know plenty of people with the Move, and I know plenty more interested in one.
Everyone I know that does have a Kinect only use it to sign into their 360 and uses it for Netflix, but never actually play any games. One of my closer friends tried to sell me his Kinect because he found it to be the biggest waste of money he's spent in recent time yet alone all launch day stuff he sat through to get.
Thats not just real life people either, thats the majority decision online. Go read about it.

Quote:
With a Move, you can shoot people with your gun and press a button on the side of it to throw a grenade. With a Kinect, you could shoot people with your gun and actually LET GO of your gun and THROW a grenade with your HAND. Get it yet?
Further evidence you have no idea how the Move works.
It's clear you have never even used or owned the device which you implied in the beginning of your rant. The Move comes with a demo disk, and just on that disk alone destroys anything/everything you've just said yet alone the games those demos are for.
You act like the Move is nothing but a Guncon/lightgun when it isn't. At all unless its intended to act like one (ie TimeCrisis Razing Storm).

I mean, its like you havent even played any game with the Move either. SOCOM 4 has you angle and swing the controller differently to "throw" the grenade as you want to.
The only game that doesn't do that is Killzone 3, and the developers specifically stated in interviews that no matter what motion-controller you use: it would never work accurately enough to be a realtime thing. Sure, you can throw the grenade with the Kinect - but it would be nothing more than a scripted and predirected action and animation. You wouldn't be aiming the grenade, your general motion would be picked up by the Kinect and execute a general command - not an accurate one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DizturbedOne View Post
Go look up upcoming Kinect titles.

Tell me how your foot tastes. LOL

The fact that a Kinect supplements a regular controller and does not replace it, makes none of that true. It brings new gamers in that would not have played games with all-kinect controlled titles. And supplements hardcore gamers with hand movements and voice control recognition while still using a controller.

Upcoming Mature rated games like Ghost Recon, Haunt, & RYSE look great. Forza 4 is Kinect enabled. Fable: The Journey is another one. Mass Effect 3 will allow you to motion your squad and give orders much like Ghost Recon. GR:Future Soldier will also allow you to create weapons via Kinect

The Kinect has a bright future. The Move however... I just a better Wii-Mote. We saw how that one goes.
First and foremost - I cannot believe you actually just tried to use "Fable: The Journey" as a "serious mature game". It's an onrails shooter that functions exactly like an arcade cabinet, completely defeating the purpose of the Kinect in the first place that is supposed to "set it apart from the Wii". That game can be played with the Wiimote even without motionplus without any problems. I can solder an IR light to a PCB with a button or two and have the game track my motion just fine to accomplish what needs to be in that game. Did you even watch the E3 demonstration? I think people were more interested in Sesame Street.

Mass Effect 3 is nothing more than voice control. I hope you do realize that can be accomplished with any microphone. There isn't anything special in the Kinect about that technology. They could've and should be doing that so any headset can do that. Even the Move has that ability - yes the PS Eye has a microphone on it. Voice control is not some magical thing that only the Kinect can do. The fact that ME3 is getting this function exclusive to the Kinect is a crying shame and a blatant buyout from Microsoft.

Ghost Recon, as I said in a previous post, looks to be VERY promising for Kinect but one can't tell yet just how good its going to be. Again, I'll repeat, just because they claim it supports the Kinect doesn't mean its going to be decent. Unlike Forza though, they've actually shown something you can go on in live action on stage. The ability to move and shoot enemies.
Thats cool, but we have no idea how scripted that is: Is there any accuracy in that or is it just another general command like the grenade? Am I just pointing my finger in the general direction on the screen and auto assist takes it from there? You can't say boo about that yet.
The Kinect might be accurate, but if I point my finger at my TV - is it going to be able to tell what EXACTLY I'm pointing at like an arm, his hand, his forehead, his kneecap? No Kinect game out there right now has anything remotely close in accuracy even in user 'hacks'/mods, so it'd be wise to be weary about Ghost Recon or anything like it till we see more. The Kinect can tell with a big reticule circle or box where my hand is on the screen but thats not going to cut it when it comes to shooting someone.
Ghost Recon is the perfect example of where Move + Kinect would be astonishing.
Edited by OmegaNemesis28 - 7/28/11 at 11:29pm
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post #84 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
Actually, the Move does have the ability of tracking your entire body. Not only does it have the Move controller to track your estimated position but the PS Eye has the capability as well. It may not be as accurate but to play something like Dodgeball with your body it would be fine. Infact, there has been Eyetoy games on the PS2 that do exactly the same.



Except the EyeToy is/was 5+ year old technology and you're saying it isn't as good as the cutting edge 3D vision dual camera Kinect. Seriously?
As for things like Forza, you have no idea how that will play and if it will even be remotely decent. Just because they CLAIM they will have support doesn't mean that it supports anything you say.



And here you're wrong again.
The Move does exactly all of that. It does depth perception - thats the entire point of the ball on top of the Move. That ball or 'dildo' as you said isn't there for looks. It allows the Eye to tell exactly where on a 3D plane your controller is. They didn't choose a sphere over a... cube or pyramid for no reason. If you've actually used the Move, you'd know this. It's very evident in several PS Move games, especially ones like Tumbler. Tumbler's entire premise is around this. It's like playing an extreme version of Jenga, you can pull/stack/rotate objects at virtually any angle or depth. It's all freedom of movement and depth perception.
To even try to say that the Move isn't "real accuracy" is above and beyond unreal too. You clearly have no education on what tech is in the Move or how its even used.



Actually, it is. You just said it yourself. They could sell you an upgraded EyeToy that is exactly like the Kinect or most likely better that would also use the Move so you get the best of both worlds. That is called futureproofing.
The Move technology could remain the same, as well as software. If the need arises, you could just upgrade the camera to supplement the Move for something or an addon to the controller itself. You don't need to buy a Move 2.
Same thing with the Wii. MotionPlus is the perfect example of futureproofing. Nintendo was able to make their Wiimotes a little more accurate and three dimensional with an additional peripheral instead of having to buy a whole new Wii or Wiimote. Futureproof. Hell even the Wii U will be using the same controllers. Double futureproof.



I know plenty of people with the Move, and I know plenty more interested in one.
Everyone I know that does have a Kinect only use it to sign into their 360 and uses it for Netflix, but never actually play any games. One of my closer friends tried to sell me his Kinect because he found it to be the biggest waste of money he's spent in recent time yet alone all launch day stuff he sat through to get.
Thats not just real life people either, thats the majority decision online. Go read about it.



Further evidence you have no idea how the Move works.
It's clear you have never even used or owned the device which you implied in the beginning of your rant. The Move comes with a demo disk, and just on that disk alone destroys anything/everything you've just said yet alone the games those demos are for.
You act like the Move is nothing but a Guncon/lightgun when it isn't. At all unless its intended to act like one (ie TimeCrisis Razing Storm).

I mean, its like you havent even played any game with the Move either. SOCOM 4 has you angle and swing the controller differently to "throw" the grenade as you want to.
The only game that doesn't do that is Killzone 3, and the developers specifically stated in interviews that no matter what motion-controller you use: it would never work accurately enough to be a realtime thing. Sure, you can throw the grenade with the Kinect - but it would be nothing more than a scripted and predirected action and animation. You wouldn't be aiming the grenade, your general motion would be picked up by the Kinect and execute a general command - not an accurate one.



First and foremost - I cannot believe you actually just tried to use "Fable: The Journey" as a "serious mature game". It's an onrails shooter that functions exactly like an arcade cabinet, completely defeating the purpose of the Kinect in the first place that is supposed to "set it apart from the Wii". That game can be played with the Wiimote even without motionplus without any problems. I can solder an IR light to a PCB with a button or two and have the game track my motion just fine to accomplish what needs to be in that game. Did you even watch the E3 demonstration? I think people were more interested in Sesame Street.

Mass Effect 3 is nothing more than voice control. I hope you do realize that can be accomplished with any microphone. There isn't anything special in the Kinect about that technology. They could've and should be doing that so any headset can do that. Even the Move has that ability - yes the PS Eye has a microphone on it. Voice control is not some magical thing that only the Kinect can do. The fact that ME3 is getting this function exclusive to the Kinect is a crying shame and a blatant buyout from Microsoft.

Ghost Recon, as I said in a previous post, looks to be VERY promising for Kinect but one can't tell yet just how good its going to be. Again, I'll repeat, just because they claim it supports the Kinect doesn't mean its going to be decent. Unlike Forza though, they've actually shown something you can go on in live action on stage. The ability to move and shoot enemies.
Thats cool, but we have no idea how scripted that is: Is there any accuracy in that or is it just another general command like the grenade? Am I just pointing my finger in the general direction on the screen and auto assist takes it from there? You can't say boo about that yet.
The Kinect might be accurate, but if I point my finger at my TV - is it going to be able to tell what EXACTLY I'm pointing at like an arm, his hand, his forehead, his kneecap? No Kinect game out there right now has anything remotely close in accuracy even in user 'hacks'/mods, so it'd be wise to be weary about Ghost Recon or anything like it till we see more. The Kinect can tell with a big reticule circle or box where my hand is on the screen but thats not going to cut it when it comes to shooting someone.
Ghost Recon is the perfect example of where Move + Kinect would be astonishing.
First off, you read SO MUCH into my posts that wasn't said... There is no arguing with you, I can already tell. You're obviously a PS fanboy that is attacking me for liking the Kinect more. Grow up.

How well did I say these games would be supported? I never said it would support it good. We were referring to them doing it in serious games, which they are. That is all. I never said Fable: The Journey was a "mature" title either, that was OVER WITH in the previous sentence. You seem to have a real hard time understanding text, while at the same time inferring information that ISN'T EVEN THERE.

I have played with a Move a lot. The depth perception sucks to the point of non-existence, and only works well on the ball portion ONLY. The Kinect can recognize ANYTHING IN THE ROOM and do it. The Eyetoy's functionality is horrible, and far more gimmicky than the Kinect. I said no more, and no less.

I already said a Kinect+Move type controller could easily be added and would own all. I already stated the shooting capabilities of the Move are better. You just re-iterated it in an argumentative manner. As I said, they would have to sell you a new Eyetoy for $150 to make it worth anything, and it's too late for that. Because you already spent MORE than that on a Move controller + Eyetoy for it to work. THAT is why it is not futureproof, they did it backwards. It has nothing to do with the tech. AGAIN, you read too much into it just for the sake of argument.

Like you said "I can swing my controller to throw a grenade..." Just stop... That's what I was talking about, a Kinect doesn't need to watch your glowing dildo, it can watch your hand. Think about what will happen when they add a consistent piece of hardware into your hand that they KNOW the EXACT size of... Coupled with the perception of the camera on the Kinect it will blow Move accuracy out of the water. Simple to understand. I never said the Move is not accurate, once again, you read so much into it that simply IS NOT THERE.

I don't think YOU have used a Kinect much, because it is not a big circle or reticle unless the game dictates that, it can recognize your hand in a pinpoint dot on the screen, with great precision, in many games already. Also, my daughter can throw balls on her Kinectimals and Fantastic Pets games with GREAT ACCURACY on a Kinect at over a dozen targets at a time, but you're telling me it can't do that with a grenade? Yeah right. The developers of KZ3 were telling you the limitations of the motion controls THEY HAD TO WORK WITH (The Move)... How would they include a Kinect in that blanket statement? You are putting the limitations of a Move into the Kinects big picture... That doesn't work here buddy. Trying something besides the demo on a Kinect before you speak and accuse me of the same, OKAY?

The SOFTWARE of the Kinect makes the voice control actually work, and work well. Unlike on the Eyetoy, which was good for what? It has been finicky and crappy even on that simple premise. And the dodgeball I'm talking about, could NEVER be done on an Eyetoy buddy, go look it up.

I could on for forever, but you will just pick it apart and ASSUME things instead of acting reasonable.
Edited by DizturbedOne - 7/29/11 at 12:29am
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post #85 of 109
And go look up Forza 4 on Kinect.

People are already walking up to their car, opening the door, sitting on their couch, and driving.

Do that with your Eyetoy.

LAUGHABLE
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post #86 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by DizturbedOne View Post
And go look up Forza 4 on Kinect.

People are already walking up to their car, opening the door, sitting on their couch, and driving.

Do that with your Eyetoy.

LAUGHABLE
Forza 4 is supposed to be a simulator, how can you call it a simulator if you can't get any feedback from the the car, its just going to be like Mario Kart with better graphics and licenesed cars.
    
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post #87 of 109
wall of text ftw lol
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post #88 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
Except the EyeToy is/was 5+ year old technology and you're saying it isn't as good as the cutting edge 3D vision dual camera Kinect. Seriously?
Yeh they are very hard to compare
The eyetoy is nothing more than a webcam with a peice of software that that can detect frame by frame changes within an video stream. It cant detect people or specific gestures just software that says "this portion of the frame has changed since the last frame so im going to click there". In theory you could write drivers to make any webcam work with playstation eyetoy games or port eyetoy games to work with any webcam. The Kinect isnt a 5 years more advanced version it is a whole new product in its own leauge. They are very difficult to compare
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Troublechild
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post #89 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post
Forza 4 is supposed to be a simulator, how can you call it a simulator if you can't get any feedback from the the car, its just going to be like Mario Kart with better graphics and licenesed cars.
Secriously? for real? a ratteling controller/wheel is more realistic to you than then full body/reaciton control recignitioin
Troublechild
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post #90 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post
Forza 4 is supposed to be a simulator, how can you call it a simulator if you can't get any feedback from the the car, its just going to be like Mario Kart with better graphics and licenesed cars.
Then how can you call GT5 a simulator when the controller doesn't even have triggers that have any amount of decent pressure sensitivity? (BOTH games have good wheels, so that is a moot point)

A "simulator" that goes "Engine Upgrade 1... Engine Upgrade 2... Engine Upgrade 3..." ???

A sim that lets you drive inside the car... For less than 1/5th of the vehicles?

A simulator that has PS2 graphics for most of the cars, and the tracks look completely lifeless and devoid of realistic background on the track?

C'mon now... This PS fanboy stuff is getting crazy.......
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My System
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