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[CVG] Xbox 720 will have 'graphics like Avatar' - AMD - Page 10

post #91 of 163
...and if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.
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post #92 of 163
What people fail to understand is that they aren't talking about a perfect 1:1 pixel representation.

Do you understand:

1. online v. offline rendering; real-time v. pre-rendering
2. scanline rendering v. ray tracing

Avatar required a data-center because every pixel of every frame was drawn via ray tracing. If they used traditional methods of rendering a frame, it would have taken an order of magnitude less to achieve similar results. It's simply a matter of pros and cons... Ray tracing is a lot simpler than restarization, but is far more latent.

Of course, I'm speaking as if Avatar had to be rendering online as opposed to offline.


Wikipedia:
Quote:
In computer graphics, ray tracing is a technique for generating an image by tracing the path of light through pixels in an image plane and simulating the effects of its encounters with virtual objects. The technique is capable of producing a very high degree of visual realism, usually higher than that of typical scanline rendering methods, but at a greater computational cost. This makes ray tracing best suited for applications where the image can be rendered slowly ahead of time, such as in still images and film and television special effects, and more poorly suited for real-time applications like video games where speed is critical. Ray tracing is capable of simulating a wide variety of optical effects, such as reflection and refraction, scattering, and chromatic aberration.
The good news is that some developers are imagining their graphics engine as kind of a hybrid that uses ray tracing for reflections to maintian realism and scanline rendering/rasterization for geometry. Toms hardware has an article on it here.

The claims are a bit sensationalist and honestly, it worked in causing you guys to react emotionally rather than with a logical rebuttal.

Most of you guys are PC thumpers so it's no surprise that when an article is posted here portraying consoles in a positive light you get emotional.
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post #93 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by un1b4ll View Post
I think everyone's taking the statement 'graphics like Avatar' a little too seriously. Obviously they're not talking about ray tracing and doing the work of a 40,000 core render farm in real time. I think we can safely assume by 'graphics like Avatar' they mean 'good graphics, better than the 360'.

So here's a reasonable translation: Xbox 720 will have good graphics, better than the 360.
Exactly
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post #94 of 163
And who said graphics wasn't everything in a video game nowadays?
    
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post #95 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by [-Snake-] View Post
And who said graphics wasn't everything in a video game nowadays?
Me.
Several dozen times actually. It's become my tag line.
post #96 of 163
I rememeber back in the day when it was claimed that the Playststion 2 could render games to the visual equivalence on Toy Story 2...we all saw how that came out lol.
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post #97 of 163
I just suffered a mini stroke after reading this.

What was AMD thinking?
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post #98 of 163
The Atari Jaguar to be 64 bit. Do the math.

Quote:
Ugh, the console hate is the only thing I hate about OCN. I expected it because it's a PC forum but still, it's ridiculous.
I haven't seen one hate-full post about consoles. You're going to be severely disappointed if you listen to every PR rep on earth.

I see where AMD is going with this, they aren't bluntly saying that the graphics are going to be on par with Avatar but getting close. The statement is bold and only serves to create hype which is inconceivable. PR should just keep their mouths shut and let a developer talk, but they wouldn't have a job.
post #99 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post
Of corse it will.

*insert Avatar movie disk into Xbox 720*
*Hit Play*
*Enjoy Avatar like graphics*
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post #100 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post

The Xbox CPU would be more properly compared with a (multicore) Intel Atom.
You have no clue what you're talking about...


Quote:
Digital Foundry: How would you characterise the combination of Xenos and Xenon compared to the traditional x86/GPU combo on PC? Surely on the face of it, Xbox 360 is lacking a lot of power compared to today's entry-level "enthusiast" PC hardware?

Oles Shishkovstov: You can calculate it like this: each 360 CPU core is approximately a quarter of the same-frequency Nehalem (i7) core. Add in approximately 1.5 times better performance because of the second, shared thread for 360 and around 1.3 times for Nehalem, multiply by three cores and you get around 70 to 85 per cent of a single modern CPU core on generic (but multi-threaded) code.

Bear in mind though that the above calculation will not work in the case where the code is properly vectorised. In that case 360 can actually exceed PC on a per-thread per-clock basis. So, is it enough? Nope, there is no CPU in the world that is enough for games!

The 360 GPU is a different beast. Compared to today's high-end hardware it is 5-10 times slower depending on what you do. But performance of hardware is only one side of equation. Because we as programmers can optimise for the specific GPU we can reach nearly 100 per cent utilisation of all the sub-units. That's just not possible on a PC.

In addition to this we can do dirty MSAA tricks, like treating some surfaces as multi-sampled (for example hi-stencil masking the light-influence does that), or rendering multi-sampled shadow maps, and then sampling correct sub-pixel values because we know exactly what pattern and what positions sub-samples have, etc. So, it's not directly comparable.
Xenon being in-order makes little difference for gaming because there isn't like theirs some process that executes that you don't know about. You have control over everything. That's why consoles are heralded for being more efficient than PCs(because they are)

Quote:
Reduced instruction set computing, or RISC (play /ˈrɪsk/), is a CPU design strategy based on the insight that simplified (as opposed to complex) instructions can provide higher performance if this simplicity enables much faster execution of each instruction.
Just read the 4A Games interview, it's very insightful:



Quote:
Digital Foundry: Does all the hard work you've done in getting 4A to run on console translate back into more efficient processing on the PC? What sort of PC hardware would be required to match Xbox 360 performance?

Oles Shishkovstov: The PC side definitely became more and more optimised as a side effect. For example we don't need as much system memory as other PC-only games. Anything above 512MB RAM with DX10/DX11 code-path on Windows 7 would be enough. DirectX9 uses system memory backing store for almost all GPU resources, so you should add around 256MB to avoid page-file swapping.

The CPU side is slightly more problematic. Because the system is heavily multi-threaded, we need at least two hardware threads for "smooth" gameplay. The CPU performance doesn't matter that much, except on a few selected scenes during the whole game as long as it is relatively modern architecture (not Intel Atom!) and has more than one core.

As for the GPU, the console brothers have very little influence on the PC version, if any. The shaders are very different. The pipeline is very different as well. I mean they are very different - they just look similar and utilise the same art content.
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