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Resurrecting a P4 - Page 2

post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airolden View Post
No.... a 32bit OS can allocate 4096MB ( 2^32 bytes ), though Windows 7 only uses 3.4GB. Either way, that is a lot more than 2GB.
So where did you find that it can allocate 3.4gb to one application it says that it has a max of 2gb per program.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.85%29.aspx

Why do you come here and start moaning about my post when i was only explaining to someone what my dad had when he had windows 7.
Edited by alex-fitton - 7/21/11 at 1:17am
 
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post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-fitton View Post
So where did you find that it can allocate 3.4gb to one application it says that it has a max of 2gb per program.

Why do you come here and start moaning about my post when i was only explaining to someone what my dad had when he had windows 7.
Wasn't aware you were saying PER program I thought you were saying overall. But what difference does per program make really? I was referring to running Windows 7 along with everything else, and 1 GB would simply not be optimal.

And I know that it can use more than 2GB overall because of some basic knowledge of binary numbers and cpu architecture.

2GB would probably work if you were only using light applications. I didn't think a RAM upgrade was in the cards at this point.
Edited by Airolden - 7/21/11 at 1:21am
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post #13 of 28
Ooooh, P4s are fun! I'm still running one, you can check out the specs in my system list.
In regards to cooling, I doubt you could find a better air cooler than the Scythe Katana 3, which most of us, P4 enthusiasts, are using in the P4 owners club (check sig ).

You'd also want an HT P4. The top-of-the-line 3.4GHz Northwoods/Prescotts can be bought used for ~$30-35, but you would likely achieve pretty similar OC results on a 3.0-3.2GHz CPU, which would cost a lot less, as well. These also have a 800MHz front side bus; that would provide a huge performance boost.

The mobo will likely choke your overclock, as s478 ASRock mobos don't have voltage control, but you should get semi-decent results even at stock volts - I had a 2.6GHz HT Northwood run stable at 3.25GHz with no voltage increase on an ASRock p4i48, which is even worse than yours.

You should also check your RAM in CPU-z and note the supported timings and frequencies.

Regarding the video card... Well, it's hard to say. The HD 3650/3850/4650/4670 cards are all awesome, yet they're utter overkill and would make you go over your budget. I'm running a 4670 and even in a perfect scenario, I can only get it to perform at ~75-80% - even the 3.4GHz Northwood is a massive bottleneck.
The 3650 would be quite a nice choice if you had the funds for it, but there's another issue with these newer cards: they're not officially supported by AMD and the new AGP hotfixes rarely work. The older drivers do work, but you're still likely to encounter some issues. Heck, I don't know. The HD series cards are awesome, but if you're gunning for a cheap solution, you could try looking for a cheaper x1*** series alternative, or check what those green guys have to offer.
In regard to W7, it's easily possible. With no apps running, W7 32-bit Ultimate SP1 uses up ~300-350MB out of the 2 gigs of my DDR400 RAM. Sure, getting more would be beneficial to you, but 1GB is still enough to get your W7 installation up and running. Don't get more than 2GB, though. You won't use it up. My 4670 lets me play quite modern games at semi-playable framerates even on a P4, but on the appropriate settings, none of them hit a ram bottleneck. The closest I got was 300MB for windows, 900MB for Aion, and ~500MB for Aion's cached memory, or whatever. All I know is it used ~1.7GB. No other game came even close (I can play both mass effect games at semi-decent framerates; The Witcher is smooth; according to youtube videos DA:O should run fine as well; etc.).

There is a downside to W7, though. If you keep using a legacy video card, you'll likely be unable to use the manufacturer's drivers (not sure about nvidia; positive about ATI). When I still had my 9600 PRO, it had to use Microsoft's WDDM drivers, as the ATI ones didn't work on W7. The 3d performance was identical to that of the ATI ones, but the 2d went down a bit. Still, after installing W7, I didn't want to touch XP again, so I didn't go back

If you have any more questions, or if I forgot to mention something - shoot. The P4 owners club should be able to assist you too
Edited by Hyoketsu - 7/21/11 at 1:53am
     
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post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyoketsu View Post
Ooooh, P4s are fun! I'm still running one, you can check out the specs in my system list.
In regards to cooling, I doubt you could find a better air cooler than the Scythe Katana 3, which most of us, P4 enthusiasts, are using in the P4 owners club (check sig ).

You'd also want an HT P4. The top-of-the-line 3.4GHz Northwoods/Prescotts can be bought used for ~$30-35, but you would likely achieve pretty similar OC results on a 3.0-3.2GHz CPU, which would cost a lot less, as well. These also have a 800MHz front side bus; that would provide a huge performance boost.

The mobo will likely choke your overclock, as s478 ASRock mobos don't have voltage control, but you should get semi-decent results even at stock volts - I had a 2.6GHz HT Northwood run stable at 3.25GHz with no voltage increase on an ASRock p4i48, which is even worse than yours.

You should also check your RAM in CPU-z and note the supported timings and frequencies.

Regarding the video card... Well, it's hard to say. The HD 3650/3850/4650/4670 cards are all awesome, yet they're utter overkill and would make you go over your budget. I'm running a 4670 and even in a perfect scenario, I can only get it to perform at ~75-80% - even the 3.4GHz Northwood is a massive bottleneck.
The 3650 would be quite a nice choice if you had the funds for it, but there's another issue with these newer cards: they're not officially supported by AMD and the new AGP hotfixes rarely work. The older drivers do work, but you're still likely to encounter some issues. Heck, I don't know. The HD series cards are awesome, but if you're gunning for a cheap solution, you could try looking for a cheaper x1*** series alternative, or check what those green guys have to offer.
In regard to W7, it's easily possible. With no apps running, W7 32-bit Ultimate SP1 uses up ~300-350MB out of the 2 gigs of my DDR400 RAM. Sure, getting more would be beneficial to you, but 1GB is still enough to get your W7 installation up and running. Don't get more than 2GB, though. You won't use it up. My 4670 lets me play quite modern games at semi-playable framerates even on a P4, but on the appropriate settings, none of them hit a ram bottleneck. The closest I got was 300MB for windows, 900MB for Aion, and ~500MB for Aion's cached memory, or whatever. All I know is it used ~1.7GB. No other game came even close (I can play both mass effect games at semi-decent framerates; The Witcher is smooth; according to youtube videos DA:O should run fine as well; etc.).

There is a downside to W7, though. If you keep using a legacy video card, you'll likely be unable to use the manufacturer's drivers (not sure about nvidia; positive about ATI). When I still had my 9600 PRO, it had to use Microsoft's WDDM drivers, as the ATI ones didn't work on W7. The 3d performance was identical to that of the ATI ones, but the 2d went down a bit. Still, after installing W7, I didn't want to touch XP again, so I didn't go back
Ye i agree with the upgrades (posted earlier)

The ati thing you can download Ati legacy drivers from pre all cards before the 2000 series. They stopped supporting the old ones so it is the latest release for the older cards.

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownloa...w_vista32.aspx
 
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post #15 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-fitton View Post
Ye i agree with the upgrades (posted earlier)

The ati thing you can download Ati legacy drivers from pre all cards before the 2000 series. They stopped supporting the old ones so it is the latest release for the older cards.

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownloa...w_vista32.aspx
Indeed, they do exist... However, they didn't work for me, at least. You see, these ones are intended for Vista, not W7. Legacy W7 ATI drivers don't exist. I think it was something about Vista using WDDM 1.0 and W7 needing 1.1... Not quite sure about the specifics. The Microsoft WDDM drivers provide a decent workaround, though.
EDIT: there:
Quote:
Note: AMD’s DirectX 9 ATI Radeon graphics accelerators are not officially supported under Windows 7. If the user chooses to, they can install the ATI Catalyst Windows Vista graphics driver under Windows 7. Please be aware that none of the new Windows 7 graphics driver (WDDM 1.1) features are supported (as the Windows Vista level graphics driver is limited to WDDM 1.0 level support). Using the ATI Catalyst Windows Vista driver under Windows 7 is not officially supported by AMD, and as such AMD will not provide any form of customer support for users running in this configuration
     
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post #16 of 28
I have 7 running on an Athlon 3000+ @ 2GHz, 1GB RAM, and an XFX FX5600, and it does fine for HTPC tasks in standard def.
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post #17 of 28
Thread Starter 
Guys, thanks for all the answers! I'm on winter break down here (Argentina, for the guy who asked), so I spend most of my time out of home, away from comps, so sorry for not answering. I'm going to go thru the thread and answer one by one.
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post #18 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airolden View Post
P4's are very overclockable. However, you are limited by how big of a heat sink you could put in to that case. For this situation, (I don't normally recommend them due to a lower price/performance ratio than good air coolers) you should look in to a Corsair H50.
Remember he doesn't want to spend much cash on this. I don't think the MHz gained are worth the $60 or so the H50 is going for, right? But a cooler like that could be repurposed in a new system, or would enable this thing to be used as an HTPC in the future (it is mATX after all, I think...).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airolden View Post
As far as W7 goes, no. W7 would be quite sluggish on this system. Actually, since I'm assuming he isn't going to be gaming on this thing, he may want to look in to a linux distro if he doesn't use any programs in particular that wouldn't be compatible.
Linux is a no no, he's a windows guy and there's no chance to convert him, lol. Funny as it sounds, he WILL be gaming. Just not Crysis 2... more like Counter-Strike, ImperiumAO (a RPG popular down here), and with the 6200GT maybe Bioshock or something like that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airolden View Post
The SATA drive really won't be any faster than good IDE, even if it was on that system you most likely won't notice the difference due to how slow the RAM is. You might as well keep the IDE drive even if you reuse the hard drive considering how common HDD failures are.
Really? Isn't the interface slightly faster, and a new drive MUCH faster? I don't know how fast the IDE drives are, they're probably crap...
I'm not too worried about failures, I had a WD that failed and there RMA service is so good that I almost want to get bad drives

Thanks for your comment.
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post #19 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airolden View Post
Just because it is POSSIBLE does not mean it is optimal. Of course any computer with a chip that supports the x86 instruction set family will run Windows 7. The system would run significantly faster on Windows XP than it would Windows 7 because applications would not be limited to such a small amount of RAM.
From what I've heard W7 OOTB uses very little RAM (i.e., more than XP but the performance improvement makes it worth it). And he could get 2GB, if that's worth it, i.e. if W7 with 2GB of RAM > XP with 1GB RAM it sounds like a good investment to me... 2GB of DDR RAM goes for about $25 on ebay... maybe less... Oh, and what about W7 Starter (that's made for netbooks I think)... Is it less resource hungry?

That said, it may be better for him to stick with XP and his 1GB of RAM, too bad you can't really get rid of IE in XP and stuff...
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post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex-fitton View Post
I searched for your motherboard all i would say is;

if you want to install windows 7 i dont think it supports your 6200

If i was me and your was been series i would

Buy a Hyper thread pentium 4 as it supports them
2gb ddr 400
and a nvidia 8400 AGP

No point buying the samsung spinpoint either just stick with ide when he comes to his new build later there maybe better hard drives out then anyway, if he was doing a new build soon then just wait

And install 7 it should work ok for the normal stuff flash games internet ect and some older games
Might as well buy a new rig, lol.

The idea is that if putting a little $ into this build he can hold out another year or year and a half, it's worth it. He can't play the latest games already, so that's nothing to worry about, it just has to play the games he wants (some of which were mentioned previously) and be a good rig to do schoolwork, chat/videochat, browse, watch movies (including online streams), etc, etc.

Why wouldn't the 6200GT work? I'm guessing you're referring to some W7/driver issue, if so please explain...
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Optical DriveCoolingKeyboardPower
MacBook Slot-Load Slim Drive Prolimatech Super Mega Shadow Microsoft Sidewinder x4 eaSonic X series SS-400FL 
CaseMouse
Bitfenix Prodigy Microsoft Wireless Touch 
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The Prodigy
(10 items)
 
  
MotherboardGraphicsRAMHard Drive
ASRock Z77E-ITX EVGA GTX 760 SC ACX SAMSUNG Miracle RAM Samsung Spinpoint F4 
Optical DriveCoolingKeyboardPower
MacBook Slot-Load Slim Drive Prolimatech Super Mega Shadow Microsoft Sidewinder x4 eaSonic X series SS-400FL 
CaseMouse
Bitfenix Prodigy Microsoft Wireless Touch 
  hide details  
Reply
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