Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Operating Systems › Windows › Cleaning the registry.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Cleaning the registry. - Page 4

post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyveRson View Post
I did some research and you guys are right. I wasn't going to yell at you.

Still your post is just another way of saying "I told you so."

EDIT: 500 Posts.

So is this statement baseless? It's from wiki is why I ask.

"The value of a cleaner resides in the quality of the entries it eradicates, not in their quantity."

When my girlfriend downloads a bunch of crap I still like using it just because I don't want it on my PC. So I shouldn't worry about it?
It's mainly moot. When your PC boots it only worries about the kernel and hardware. Once you get into the hklm/software/microsoft/windows/current version/run and the msconfig.msc startup apps then more registry stuff gets read. That's all user crap, however generally that still doesn't effect boot more than a couple seconds (if that). The actual starting of services/programs outside of what's required to boot is what effects boot times.

If you think that this will help the computer "search" for registry values your also slightly mistaken. The registry is a spin off of the b-tree design. b-trees in C/C++ are hard to search, well... They are inefficient to search, especially if the data isn't in the first layer of branches. MS knows this, so they designed the registry so that you don't search it. Hence the labeling scheme, programmers know this... Or at least, programmers SHOULD know this as your taught this early on.

So if the registry is designed to be used without searching, how on earth does it matter if you remove keys? Especially when programs call reg keys they call path names. If they search, IF, they search within their local hiv files. Generally though they search within smaller locations:

hklm/software/some key location

That would be the software hiv file! You can go smaller and smaller, making it more and more efficient. Now, windows does keep things like program associations in the registry. However it organizes it the same way, MS intentionally does this to minimize the use of searching. It knows where to search and where it puts the file associations.

There are more ways you can optimize this process further, like loading the system hiv into RAM. It's like 30MB (or less?) on file, strip out file format and you probably get half that. Heck, you don't even use half of it anyways so your loading less than 1/3 of that file I'm sure. 15M in ram, being searched, is nothing.

This is what reg cleaners don't tell you, they don't care as they want you to buy them/use them. It's the same concept as those old programs that "free windows memory".

[edit] I swear I've explained this already, like 10 times or more. It's basic programming 101, you SHOULD know this if your going into anything heavy. They tell you in c++ that b-trees (or similar designs) should be searched minimally as they (can) take a while. Especially if the data is at the lower end of the tree (branches). b-tree is for binary tree, two trees. I know the registry isn't a b-tree however it follows the design scheme, just with more trees. This complicates the search algorithm more. If I know this MS is sure to know this.
Edited by mushroomboy - 7/23/11 at 9:31am
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
It's mainly moot. When your PC boots it only worries about the kernel and hardware. Once you get into the hklm/software/microsoft/windows/current version/run and the msconfig.msc startup apps then more registry stuff gets read. That's all user crap, however generally that still doesn't effect boot more than a couple seconds (if that). The actual starting of services/programs outside of what's required to boot is what effects boot times.

If you think that this will help the computer "search" for registry values your also slightly mistaken. The registry is a spin off of the b-tree design. b-trees in C/C++ are hard to search, well... They are inefficient to search, especially if the data isn't in the first layer of branches. MS knows this, so they designed the registry so that you don't search it. Hence the labeling scheme, programmers know this... Or at least, programmers SHOULD know this as your taught this early on.

So if the registry is designed to be used without searching, how on earth does it matter if you remove keys? Especially when programs call reg keys they call path names. If they search, IF, they search within their local hiv files. Generally though they search within smaller locations:

hklm/software/some key location

That would be the software hiv file! You can go smaller and smaller, making it more and more efficient. Now, windows does keep things like program associations in the registry. However it organizes it the same way, MS intentionally does this to minimize the use of searching. It knows where to search and where it puts the file associations.

There are more ways you can optimize this process further, like loading the system hiv into RAM. It's like 30MB (or less?) on file, strip out file format and you probably get half that. Heck, you don't even use half of it anyways so your loading less than 1/3 of that file I'm sure. 15M in ram, being searched, is nothing.

This is what reg cleaners don't tell you, they don't care as they want you to buy them/use them. It's the same concept as those old programs that "free windows memory".

[edit] I swear I've explained this already, like 10 times or more. It's basic programming 101, you SHOULD know this if your going into anything heavy. They tell you in c++ that b-trees (or similar designs) should be searched minimally as they (can) take a while. Especially if the data is at the lower end of the tree (branches). b-tree is for binary tree, two trees. I know the registry isn't a b-tree however it follows the design scheme, just with more trees. This complicates the search algorithm more. If I know this MS is sure to know this.
1. HKEY_DYN_DATA
2. A Corrupted System Registry Will Crash The System
3. The registry are 6 files
4. a single day a system can enter more than a thousand entries in the database. Forty percent of which will be useless after the days work is done.
Edited by Spooony - 7/23/11 at 8:36pm
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volvo View Post
Crogram
Lols
post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyveRson View Post
I did some research and you guys are right. I wasn't going to yell at you.

Still your post is just another way of saying "I told you so."

EDIT: 500 Posts.

So is this statement baseless? It's from wiki is why I ask.

"The value of a cleaner resides in the quality of the entries it eradicates, not in their quantity."

When my girlfriend downloads a bunch of crap I still like using it just because I don't want it on my PC. So I shouldn't worry about it?
And people complain about their anti malware products eating up resources
post #35 of 42
I used to use CCleaner and never had a problem. I no longer defragment or clean my drives.
post #36 of 42
dunno what explorer is doing here
post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
1. HKEY_DYN_DATA
2. A Corrupted System Registry Will Crash The System
3. The registry are 6 files
4. a single day a system can enter more than a thousand entries in the database. Forty percent of which will be useless after the days work is done.
1) ? Is that reg location supposed to mean something?

[edit/update]
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/250568

So.... You realize how old that is right? HOW OLD!!!??? I openly admit 98 and older had problems, this is NOT in reference to an OS that is obsolete and dead. I do not write support for them, I will not give you support for them, they are DEAD.

2) I never said it couldn't, I just said if the keys aren't there they will be taken from backups. Some keys can't be changed, however you don't have access to those keys so you can't do much about that (no point in mentioning).

3) I know, earlier in this post I stated all the files.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
[edit] Not only that, things are sandboxed, so the user's registry hiv file is separate from the system's hiv file. Programs cannot write to the system's hiv file, it's not allowed. Components/Defaults/Drivers/SAM/Software/System The only one that programs write to that I have ever been aware of is Software, which would effect program performance. I doubt this however since so many programs no longer require the registry to work, missing entries will be regenerated or set to default (takes too long to search for them).
Read an entire tread before you assume I don't know that.

4) [deleted for reason: MOOT and read #1]
Edited by mushroomboy - 7/24/11 at 11:50am
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
1) ? Is that reg location supposed to mean something?

[edit/update]
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/250568

So.... You realize how old that is right? HOW OLD!!!??? I openly admit 98 and older had problems, this is NOT in reference to an OS that is obsolete and dead. I do not write support for them, I will not give you support for them, they are DEAD.

2) I never said it couldn't, I just said if the keys aren't there they will be taken from backups. Some keys can't be changed, however you don't have access to those keys so you can't do much about that (no point in mentioning).

3) I know, earlier in this post I stated all the files.



Read an entire tread before you assume I don't know that.

4) [deleted for reason: MOOT and read #1]
Windows 98 used init files
That location is gets loaded into the ram at boot. Windows gets its instructions from the registry. So it doesnt care about drivers.
What does a reg cleaner do? it backs up my registry and you notice that picture I posted of explorer accessing empty keys looking till it find the right one? Now 400 of those entries a day times the amount of days how long is that empty list going to be? Plus all the empty entries loaded into your ram as well.
They call them reg cleaners but they remove junk from your pc basically and provide backups on a regular basis. Removing junk files and entries increases av products performance and scanning times a lot and malware cant hide itself that well. No one is paying for them as Ccleaner and nirsofts utility is free.
I agree paying for it a person must be insane and they do give some bogus reasons to buy those applications.
post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
Windows 98 used init files
That location is gets loaded into the ram at boot. Windows gets its instructions from the registry. So it doesnt care about drivers.
What does a reg cleaner do? it backs up my registry and you notice that picture I posted of explorer accessing empty keys looking till it find the right one? Now 400 of those entries a day times the amount of days how long is that empty list going to be? Plus all the empty entries loaded into your ram as well.
They call them reg cleaners but they remove junk from your pc basically and provide backups on a regular basis. Removing junk files and entries increases av products performance and scanning times a lot and malware cant hide itself that well. No one is paying for them as Ccleaner and nirsofts utility is free.
I agree paying for it a person must be insane and they do give some bogus reasons to buy those applications.
If you really think it's adding 400 lines to your registry... Go check it out, but since those are reports of missing entries I'm going to say that's really bad logic. Seems as your getting errors for missing keys I'm going to say they aren't there, key not found...

If your getting key not found... I fail to see how deleting the key from the registry would help? I'm really wondering how that works, because your going to be hard pressed to find registry keys that link to other registry keys... Redundancy is bad, very bad. So what are we cleaning then, configuration files? System files? Once you get out of the topic of cleaning the registry you are no longer cleaning the registry. I'm not discussing the other things a registry cleaner can do am I? I'm here to discuss the cleaning of the registry and how it doesn't help actual performance. Never have I said not to remove:

Temp
Cookies
History
Recent Urls
Auto completion (history)
Recent Documents
Run
Search
Recycle bin
Internet files (temp)
Clip Board

The list can go on and on... This was to the topic of cleaning the registry. So why on earth are you bringing that in, we now have to change the topic if you want to go there. That's cool but that still isn't the topic of cleaning the registry. STAY ON TOPIC if your going to reply and quote me.

[Epiphany! RARE] One of the reasons we say not to clean the registry is actually directly related to that picture. You don't have access to clean all of windows' configuration files. Some of these config files have referencing to the registry, the exact same registry that the reg cleaner just trimmed 400 lines of code from. When you do that you have a huge possibility of getting that error in the pic, reg entry not found. Windows then continues searching for a location as to where it might have stored the data and will continue to do so until it finds the data. This is actual overhead caused by cleaning the registry, so essentially your cleaning is causing the overhead in that picture. MOOBARWUT!
Edited by mushroomboy - 7/24/11 at 2:11pm
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
If you really think it's adding 400 lines to your registry... Go check it out, but since those are reports of missing entries I'm going to say that's really bad logic. Seems as your getting errors for missing keys I'm going to say they aren't there, key not found...

If your getting key not found... I fail to see how deleting the key from the registry would help? I'm really wondering how that works, because your going to be hard pressed to find registry keys that link to other registry keys... Redundancy is bad, very bad. So what are we cleaning then, configuration files? System files? Once you get out of the topic of cleaning the registry you are no longer cleaning the registry. I'm not discussing the other things a registry cleaner can do am I? I'm here to discuss the cleaning of the registry and how it doesn't help actual performance. Never have I said not to remove:

Temp
Cookies
History
Recent Urls
Auto completion (history)
Recent Documents
Run
Search
Recycle bin
Internet files (temp)
Clip Board

The list can go on and on... This was to the topic of cleaning the registry. So why on earth are you bringing that in, we now have to change the topic if you want to go there. That's cool but that still isn't the topic of cleaning the registry. STAY ON TOPIC if your going to reply and quote me.

[Epiphany! RARE] One of the reasons we say not to clean the registry is actually directly related to that picture. You don't have access to clean all of windows' configuration files. Some of these config files have referencing to the registry, the exact same registry that the reg cleaner just trimmed 400 lines of code from. When you do that you have a huge possibility of getting that error in the pic, reg entry not found. Windows then continues searching for a location as to where it might have stored the data and will continue to do so until it finds the data. This is actual overhead caused by cleaning the registry, so essentially your cleaning is causing the overhead in that picture. MOOBARWUT!
thats a uncleaned registry
after a run with glarysoft

keys pointing to empty locations is why theres not found errors
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Windows
Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Operating Systems › Windows › Cleaning the registry.