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[Neowin] Rumor: AMD close to locking up CPU-GPU win for next-gen Xbox Console - Page 8

post #71 of 88
a 6850 is like 1400 million transisitors,

there is no way, ZERO chance of that big a gpu being on same die as cpu, its not physically possible, the chip would be massive , speeds would be low, and yields would be terrible, maybe on 22nm it would be feasible, but zero chance on 32 nm process

the current amd apu (llano) is like 400 million transistor gpu, if even that, no way are they going to be able to triple its size on 32nm
post #72 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luger View Post
a 6850 is like 1400 million transisitors,

there is no way, ZERO chance of that big a gpu being on same die as cpu, its not physically possible, the chip would be massive , speeds would be low, and yields would be terrible, maybe on 22nm it would be feasible, but zero chance on 32 nm process

the current amd apu (llano) is like 400 million transistor gpu, if even that, no way are they going to be able to triple its size on 32nm

I said 28nm.



Edit: here are a few interesting numbers:

Radeon HD4870: 800 Shaders, 956 million transistors on a 55 nm process (half node process) - 160w TDP

Radeon HD6850: 960 Shaders, 1400 million transitors on a 40nm process: 127w TDP

How much would the TDP of a Radeon HD6850 (with added further optimizations of being a unique chip instead of a harvested HD6870) be at 28nm, which is a full node improvement ?


The Radeons HD6790 / HD6850 will be, at 28nm, the entry level cards for gamers, like what the Radeon HD5670 (400 Shaders, 750 Mhz) was.

The midrange will feature cards with 1400 shaders + and the high-end will feature cards with 3000+ shaders.


Plus, let's take as an example for the CPU, the Deneb 4 core (Phenom II X4): 758 million transistors. So, adding those to the 1400 million, you'd end up with around 2158 million.

The Radeon 6950 has 2640 million transistors and a 200w TDP at 40nm. Now put than in perspective with the 2158 million above.

Now imagine doing a die shrink of that to 28nm.

Having said that, it seems pretty feasible to me getting a 150w TDP APU.
Edited by tpi2007 - 7/22/11 at 7:50pm
 
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post #73 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luger View Post
even though its custom made apu (im certain it will be apu), and may not be available as desktop chip, there is no way amd is going to be able to fit more than 500-600 million transitors for gpu on the same die as cpu, so youre hopes of 6870 or anything current high end are dreams

that said a 4 core bullbozer with a 500-600 shader gpu would be quite powerful compared to ps3 or xbox 360, and probably even the wii hd, (which will be weak, imo, compared to current pc hardware))
You're forgetting that having a quad core BD would only use a tiny amount of space, practically the same as a dual core Stars CPU (Which are REALLY small)

Not sure about the quad channel or the interconnects, but it could all theoretically fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luger View Post
a 6850 is like 1400 million transisitors,

there is no way, ZERO chance of that big a gpu being on same die as cpu, its not physically possible, the chip would be massive , speeds would be low, and yields would be terrible, maybe on 22nm it would be feasible, but zero chance on 32 nm process

the current amd apu (llano) is like 400 million transistor gpu, if even that, no way are they going to be able to triple its size on 32nm
Bulldozer cores are smaller than Stars, Llano is a quad, if they wanted a quad in the new Xbox APU then it'd be smaller than Llanos quad by far (28nm vs 40nm, BD vs Stars, etc)

It's very feasible, there's already stuff with 3billion transistors (GF100/GF110) on 40nm, let alone a 1400 transistor GPU and a smaller two module CPU, even on 40nm AMD could roughly double the 400 shaders they have on Llano just by moving to BD style cores instead of Stars.
    
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post #74 of 88
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Originally Posted by adamkatt View Post
I think you guys are all Consoles in general, even though YES are old, yes are out dated(compared to pc) however... they are still VERY playable, enjoyable. Your saying "6 months later" there outdated, not really.. consoles run at 1080p (or less..) and not to mention the optimization consoles receive, so really... saying that oh that console has a really outdated cpu/gpu in all honesty.. it DOESN"T need a better one and that's why consoles can go 5+ years before making a new one. Side by side, 1080p, Black ops PC vs Xbox.. PC may have a little better graphics but seriously..? not to mention, console players tend to sit further, lay back and relax in recliners, or on the couch and have a ball with there friends on the mics, graphics is the least they worry about, that's one thing PC gamers are so picky about having the latest greatest graphics. In the end.. PC may hold better SPECS but the consoles offer just enough to have the right amount of fun.. really what people should be saying is PC vs Wii then maybe they can compare the graphics and all that.

How many recent games run natively in 1080p? not many. Killzone 3 in 2d mode is the only recent one I can think of [but that's PS3]. black ops native res was under 1280x720. the hardware is dated. period.

when you have to make a game look like garbage and have a SD native resolution to run at 60fps, your hardware is dated.
    
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post #75 of 88
noooo i dreamt my new xbox 720 to hv not an integraded gpu but a removable one so we can upgrade it and customize the game graphics like pc.and m$ and amd will gain more money cos ppl wanna upgrade every day can anyone tell that to m$ and amd??
post #76 of 88
Hope every game next gen, implements tessellation nicely

Excited to see next gen console games and graphics

Just bought a PS3 2 days ago Awesome for a gaming machine.. Graphics weren't as bad when you're in the gaming zone.. not as bad too when you don't do a side by side comparison xD
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post #77 of 88
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Originally Posted by lenis1990 View Post
noooo i dreamt my new xbox 720 to hv not an integraded gpu but a removable one so we can upgrade it and customize the game graphics like pc.and m$ and amd will gain more money cos ppl wanna upgrade every day can anyone tell that to m$ and amd??
That is what a PC is for... If you want upgradeable graphics, play on PC, it's that simple. I doubt consoles will ever have the option to upgrade, because it's easier to code, and optimize for one set of hardware than it is for thousands. Also, upgrading would mean that you would have to open the case, and do you realize how bad that would turn out for the general public? I can guarantee that a ton of people would end up destroying their consoles in the process, which means either bad publicity, if they don't fix them for free, or a ton of money spent replacing those consoles. Bottom line is if you want upgrade-ability, play on PC because that's the only place you're going to get it.
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post #78 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenis1990 View Post
noooo i dreamt my new xbox 720 to hv not an integraded gpu but a removable one so we can upgrade it and customize the game graphics like pc.and m$ and amd will gain more money cos ppl wanna upgrade every day can anyone tell that to m$ and amd??
Im sure there wouldnt be any overheating or space problems putting a bigger newer card into a small console box.
    
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post #79 of 88
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Originally Posted by sLowEnd View Post
Nintendo

Microsoft

Sony

I'm 87% sure Sony will go for Nvidia
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post #80 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDarkTempler View Post
I'm 87% sure Sony will go for Nvidia
The rumors say Sony is getting an AMD bulldozer APU too. Consoles makers want the most profit and the least cost. Having the CPU + GPU on the same die makes it cheaper and simpler to design the console. Less heat as well.
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