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[MaximumPC] Carmack Rages Over Devs' “Snooty Attitude” Toward Call of Duty - Page 4

post #31 of 73
Carmack can understand where Call of Duty is coming from. Both CoD and Carmack recycle the same game over and over again. The only difference is Carmack comes out with a new game engine every few years. CoD still keeps the same game engine.

If you played Wolfenstein 3D, you basically played every game Carmack ever made.
post #32 of 73
I dislike Apple because they use their name to charge a premium for features that can be had for much less if you have any kind of sense.

Well I guess you could say its actually less of a dislike and more of a lack of reason to purchase their products as it goes against how I like/use my products.

Proprietary standards, lack of gaming support, low tweakability.

If I cant mess with something/customize it to a certain extent, I dont want it.
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post #33 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising;14306568 
Carmack has a point, though I put it in a different context. If people are willing to shell out cash for CoD 4.6.2, then it's not really Activision's fault. Business-wise, it's actually quite ingenious.

Ingenious to recycle the same game because it was really popular? I can't say I agree. 1942 was extremely popular, but in BF2 they still innovated and added a real command structure. BF2 was extremely popular, but they still innovated and added large-scale destruction with the Bad Company games.

Or for a different series.
Halo 1 was one of the best console FPS this past decade, but they revamped the shield systems, redid weapon design, and added vehicle damage in H2. Halo 2 was ridiculously successful, but in H3 they still added Forge and Theater mode, as well as a dedicated stats page online, all of which was years ahead of CoD.


EDIT: Main point being, people will shell out money for a good game that's recycled over and over, but eventually they'll become satiated. If the developers are willing to constantly upgrade their games with new features, people will still shell out money, but they'll know each buy is going to be a different experience worth their money. I'll probably end up getting MW3 because everyone else will, but I might not because I know it's going to play just like every game since CoD 4. I'll definitely end up getting Halo 4 because I love the series and know 343 will continue to innovate.
Edited by Narzon - 7/22/11 at 8:19am
post #34 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narzon;14306627 
Ingenious to recycle the same game because it was really popular? I can't say I agree. 1942 was extremely popular, but in BF2 they still innovated and added a real command structure. BF2 was extremely popular, but they still innovated and added large-scale destruction with the Bad Company games.

In a business stand point? Absolutely. When all they have to do is recycle the previous game by throwing it into a machine and popping out something "new", they don't have to spend nearly as much time and money on the game because people will buy it regardless and love it.

Eventually, people will catch on, but why should we blame Activision when it's the consumers who seem to be a little slow on what's actually going down?

Same thing with EA and their tactics. They can get away with it because WE let them get away with it. The consumers pretty much dictate what these companies can do and WE let it happen by buying their products. You dislike their practices? Don't buy the damn game. Simple, right? I seem to recall lots of people saying that we should all boycott MW2 because of the lacking of dedicated servers and such. Guess what? Looking on what was being played on Steam, MW2 was very popular. Guess dedicated servers don't really matter? That's what the consumers lead them to believe.

Basically, why put forth the effort if we're willing to eat whatever pile of crap they throw on the plate?
Edited by Rising - 7/22/11 at 8:28am
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post #35 of 73
To me, it's not so much that people rip the CoD franchise, it's what is held up in it's place as a "better experience." Games like Counter-strike and Battlefield just arn't as good at the core mechanics of shooting, not to mention annoying pretensions to "realism" and "tactics" that are neither realistic nor tactical.

That isn't to say CoD shouldn't be criticized, and in the trajectory it's headed it looks more and more like it's actually trying to get people to hate it.
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post #36 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narzon;14306511 
I think you should read the actual article.

EDIT: I don't know whether or not you'd consider me a fanboy, but I dislike Apple for two main reasons. One is that they standardize all their hardware and limit their OS. Two is that they market this whole "cult" attitude as if all the informed buyers are Apple users and anyone who still uses a Windows OS is just a sheep. Almost ironic, really.

I did read it and I don't get what you mean.

Basically Carmack says the devs don't bother with making anything good/new, they just make stuff for money, right?

(Then he goes on saying how indie devs become elitists)


(Regarding Apple, the cult thing is from the customers, not the brand itself really... Off topic)
post #37 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising;14306685 
Basically, why put forth the effort if we're willing to eat whatever pile of crap they throw on the plate?

Because in the long run people will loath you for it, whereas innovation will prevail into the future. Rehashing CoD games may be a smart business move now, but in the not-too-distant future, people will want something different, and at that point it will be too late for Activision to catch up.
post #38 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacA;14306934 
I did read it and I don't get what you mean.

Basically Carmack says the devs don't bother with making anything good/new, they just make stuff for money, right?

(Then he goes on saying how indie devs become elitists)


(Regarding Apple, the cult thing is from the customers, not the brand itself really... Off topic)

No. Carmack is defending Activision/CoD, not attacking it. If you read, you couldn't possibly have missed the whole point of the article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacA 
Carmack can scream that CoD sucks (and I'll happily agree) all he wants, it doesn't matter: many people, his very customers actually, like CoD.
^Pretty clear you didn't read.


Apple inspires the cult with its "I'm a Mac" commercials and "Apple Stores". Apple isn't just a technology brand any more, it's a lifestyle, it's a movement.
post #39 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLCLimax;14306034 
carmack is an ass now. he's not the same person that PC gamers used to worship.

He's an ass for speaking the truth? There are gaming snobs out there that don't believe gaming and business don't mix, that all games need be art that pushes the envelope. Hogwash. I've said it a million times, the gaming industry needs its cash cows...that's how you fund the riskier projects.

And lest we forget, id did this exact thing with DOOM a zillion years ago...between expansion packs, DOOM 2, and repacking, there was a lot of franchise miling going on back when you apparently thought Carmack wasn't an ass.

And I still worship Carmack. Not only because he shares my last name, but because he's one of the last true old-schoolers that can still make games worth a crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLCLimax;14306165 
name objectively, a proper MMORPG that was of or near the quality of WoW and offered a viable alternative. That situation is only likely to change starting this year.

Wow, that's a bit of a loaded question. It's subject to how you interpret "proper", "quality", and "viable alternative". If you ask me, no MMO made to date compares with Ultima Online's early days, but I'm sure it would fail all three of your conditions based on how old and crappy it would appear to new players. What it sounds like you're actually asking, the way you framed the question anyway, is "Show me a game that has tried to copy WoW that is as good as Wow".

Obviously I would point out that even WoW is just a copy and refinement of previous efforts. The one real way that WoW truly supercedes all other comers is that was first to figure out how to make the basic MMO gameplay appeal to a massive amount of people in ways that EQ and UO did not...i.e., it is a business success. (The very same thing you just derided Carmack for defending, if I'm not mistaken.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRockMonsi;14306259 
I see Carmack's point, but I think people are starting to hate hard on CoD because of how often a new one comes out. Yeah, you don't have to do something that's never been seen before, but that doesn't mean to release what people consider to be the exact same thing every single year - I think that's where people are getting mad about the CoD series. If MW2 or Black Ops didn't add anything at all to the franchise, then why even release them?

Yes, this resonates with me. Now I'm not a CoD fan, I've only played CoD4 myself. But I do scan the reviews, and it sure seems from a distance as if the new games frequently are sometimes only a few hours of new single-player gameplay, and maybe some new maps for multiplayer? Now there's nothing particularly wrong with milking a game in this way, but we used to see these packaged as expansion packs that would cost roughly half of what a full game cost.

And they should be careful, over-releasing inferior products is in no small part how they killed off the Guitar Hero franchise. Just because that was a rhythym game and this is a shooter doesn't mean they cannot be compared in a business context...oversaturation of any market with "me too" products can deflate that market.
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post #40 of 73
just when i really needed a laugh.
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