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[MaximumPC] Carmack Rages Over Devs' “Snooty Attitude” Toward Call of Duty - Page 5

post #41 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon;14307504 
He's an ass for speaking the truth? There are gaming snobs out there that don't believe gaming and business don't mix, that all games need be art that pushes the envelope. Hogwash. I've said it a million times, the gaming industry needs its cash cows...that's how you fund the riskier projects.

And lest we forget, id did this exact thing with DOOM a zillion years ago...between expansion packs, DOOM 2, and repacking, there was a lot of franchise miling going on back when you apparently thought Carmack wasn't an ass.

And I still worship Carmack. Not only because he shares my last name, but because he's one of the last true old-schoolers that can still make games worth a crap.



Wow, that's a bit of a loaded question. It's subject to how you interpret "proper", "quality", and "viable alternative". If you ask me, no MMO made to date compares with Ultima Online's early days, but I'm sure it would fail all three of your conditions based on how old and crappy it would appear to new players. What it sounds like you're actually asking, the way you framed the question anyway, is "Show me a game that has tried to copy WoW that is as good as Wow".

Obviously I would point out that even WoW is just a copy and refinement of previous efforts. The one real way that WoW truly supercedes all other comers is that was first to figure out how to make the basic MMO gameplay appeal to a massive amount of people in ways that EQ and UO did not...i.e., it is a business success. (The very same thing you just derided Carmack for defending, if I'm not mistaken.)



Yes, this resonates with me. Now I'm not a CoD fan, I've only played CoD4 myself. But I do scan the reviews, and it sure seems from a distance as if the new games frequently are sometimes only a few hours of new single-player gameplay, and maybe some new maps for multiplayer? Now there's nothing particularly wrong with milking a game in this way, but we used to see these packaged as expansion packs that would cost roughly half of what a full game cost.

And they should be careful, over-releasing inferior products is in no small part how they killed off the Guitar Hero franchise. Just because that was a rhythym game and this is a shooter doesn't mean they cannot be compared in a business context...oversaturation of any market with "me too" products can deflate that market.

The first part and last part of your post are kind of contradicting.

The main reason people are starting to COD bash, devs included, is because Acti are basically selling a re-skin every year for more than full price of many games.

You're essentially agreeing with most peoples negative attitude towards COD.
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post #42 of 73
The best defense is a good offense eh Carmack? You're such a hypocrite.
post #43 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLCLimax;14306034 
carmack is an ass now. he's not the same person that PC gamers used to worship. most things he has to say for the past 5+ years boils down to "XBOX XBOX XBOX MONEY MONEY Nintendo sucks AMD sucks XBOX XBOX XBOX".

the man sounds just like my little cousin, that's not a good thing.

Wow, what have you accomplished in your life that entitles you to tear down a man who has accomplished so much?

Anyway, Carmack was in no way "raging", that headline is worthy of a UK tabloid, all hype and no truth, just looking to generate page views.

He makes good points all around. I haven't enjoyed a Modern Warfare game since the first one, COD4. A lot of people out there are enjoying them though, otherwise you wouldn't see the huge sales that series has been getting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t00sl0w;14306047 
wonder if he would say that if rage doesnt sell well because of MW3

If Rage does not sell well, and I think it will do well, then it won't b/c of MW3, it will be b/c they delivered a sub-par game.
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post #44 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mygaffer;14307832 
Wow, what have you accomplished in your life that entitles you to tear down a man who has accomplished so much?

Anyway, Carmack was in no way "raging", that headline is worthy of a UK tabloid, all hype and no truth, just looking to generate page views.

He makes good points all around. I haven't enjoyed a Modern Warfare game since the first one, COD4. A lot of people out there are enjoying them though, otherwise you wouldn't see the huge sales that series has been getting.


If Rage does not sell well, and I think it will do well, then it won't b/c of MW3, it will be b/c they delivered a sub-par game.

I highly doubt it sells all that well. Very few people care about ID anymore and we are talking about a time when MW3, Gears 3, Uncharted 3, BF3 and a bunch of other hot games are coming out. Who has the time for Rage? Bethesda is even putting it up against their own game, Skyrim.
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post #45 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mygaffer;14307832 
Wow, what have you accomplished in your life that entitles you to tear down a man who has accomplished so much?

Anyway, Carmack was in no way "raging", that headline is worthy of a UK tabloid, all hype and no truth, just looking to generate page views.

He makes good points all around. I haven't enjoyed a Modern Warfare game since the first one, COD4. A lot of people out there are enjoying them though, otherwise you wouldn't see the huge sales that series has been getting.


If Rage does not sell well, and I think it will do well, then it won't b/c of MW3, it will be b/c they delivered a sub-par game.


There are plenty of good (maybe not great) games out there that are practically unknown compared to CoD. In a perfect world, good games would sell well, bad ones wouldn't. Of course, any rational person knows that's not the case.
post #46 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narzon;14306983 
Because in the long run people will loath you for it, whereas innovation will prevail into the future. Rehashing CoD games may be a smart business move now, but in the not-too-distant future, people will want something different, and at that point it will be too late for Activision to catch up.

Yes, some people already do loathe them, but for every person that does, about 100 more love them. Sales don't lie. When sales begin to drop, that's when they'll make a change, and then everyone will flock back until Activision exhausts that change too. Rinse and repeat.
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post #47 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising;14308054 
Yes, some people already do loathe them, but for every person that does, about 100 more love them. Sales don't lie. When sales begin to drop, that's when they'll make a change, and then everyone will flock back until Activision exhausts that change too. Rinse and repeat.

My point being that when Activison finally does make a change it'll be too late to get all the old consumers back. By the time they do make a change, it'll have to be pretty drastic, and that'll only serve to split their fanbase between "purists" and those who want progress. Progress needs to be in effect before people start leaving.
post #48 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemama1956;14307872 
I highly doubt it sells all that well. Very few people care about ID anymore and we are talking about a time when MW3, Gears 3, Uncharted 3, BF3 and a bunch of other hot games are coming out. Who has the time for Rage? Bethesda is even putting it up against their own game, Skyrim.

Rage will sell well, even with the bomb that Q4 (supposedly) had. It is the marketing that sells a game, well that is what usually sells a game. People said MW2 would fail in the PC market, a huge boycott and everything. What happened? Not to mention ID has a fan base that follows them, the same with Bethesda and Dice. I would say out of your games the most well known/oldest would be Bethesda and ID, everything else is rather new. New companies may sell well but they don't have a dedicated fan base, while older companies don't have the hype but have a dedicated fan base. It's one of the quirks in marketing. Just like if 3D Realms got resurrected from the dead and made a game. Even after the botched Duke, 3d Realms themselves would sell. History repeats, fans buy crap, it's the world over.

[OP/edit] He's right, even though I hate COD style gaming I know it's a phase and a lot of people love it. It'll blow over, every phase does.
Edited by mushroomboy - 7/22/11 at 10:45am
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post #49 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy;14307691 
The first part and last part of your post are kind of contradicting.
In the first part he was simply stating that the industry needs it's cash cows, but in the last he was saying while although that's the case, it is actually possible to milk it too much. That's what I got from it anyway. It's okay to have a cash cow, but don't milk it to the point that the utters fall off.
 
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post #50 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemama1956;14307872 
I highly doubt it sells all that well. Very few people care about ID anymore and we are talking about a time when MW3, Gears 3, Uncharted 3, BF3 and a bunch of other hot games are coming out. Who has the time for Rage? Bethesda is even putting it up against their own game, Skyrim.

So, a decent looking game won't sell because people don't care about the developer anymore? This very thread is about one of the best selling gaming franchises, developed by a company who may as well be the devil himself.

Most people don't decide on which games to buy based solely on what developer is attached to the title.

Also, Rage is hardly in competition with Skyrim. There may be some overlap, but the genres and core audiences are quite different. Rage won't be topping charts, though I expect it to do well enough.
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