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LLC vs more vcore

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, i'm sure a few of you will remember my post 2 days ago about a motherboard suddenly breaking on me, i read a few reviews and ordered a sabertooth because they all seemed quite positive,

i got the board this morning and everything has been running perfectly, my processor temps are actually 6-7*C lower than the previous board for some reason,

I do have one question, the LLC on this board lets me go from normal to OMGBBQExtreme, and i'm wondering which is better - having a bit more vcore and a normal LLC or having a lower vcore and an EXTREME LLC,

the reason i ask is because my chip seems to give a high amount of vdroop, and i have LLC set on high. it basically halves my vdroop letting me get an even higher overclock than before with the same vcore, (and lower temps)

The chip i have can do 4.5ghz at about 1.3v, (that is, under load), but i have to set something stupid like 1.38 in bios, im thinking that with an extreme LLC, i can set 1.30 in bios, and it will stay around 1.30 under load, thus giving me 0.08vcore less, (and even lower temps)

I understand what LLC does, i've never heard anyone complain that their chip died to do extreme LLC, i dont fancy pushing this chip further than 4.5ghz, even though it would be quite tempting with all that headroom to play with,

thanks all
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post #2 of 8
Most people using the ASUS P8P67 Vanilla/PRO/EVO and Deluxe and the P8Z68 series boards seems to agree that Ultra high LLC is best to use.
    
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post #3 of 8
Usually level2 (ultrahigh, one below extreme) works great for 4.6~5.0.
vdroop is there for a reason, though.
It is protecting the CPU from getting unwanted voltage spike damaging it.
That's the reason level1(extreme) setting which is usually flat (no vdroop) considered unsafe.
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post #4 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turrican9 View Post
Most people using the ASUS P8P67 Vanilla/PRO/EVO and Deluxe and the P8Z68 series boards seems to agree that Ultra high LLC is best to use.

if i set ultra in bios, i can set 1.35 volts but cpu-z reports 1.38volt spikes, surely thats the same as having it high and having 1.38v set?
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post #5 of 8
Use the level of LLC that maintains a higher idle Vcore than Load Vcore. LLC that pushes Vcore over idle Vcore under 100% load conditions will pass stability tests but fail in day to day tasks as the bump in Vcore will never occur to stabilise the chip for that particular frequency.
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post #6 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasjeet View Post
Use the level of LLC that maintains a higher idle Vcore than Load Vcore. LLC that pushes Vcore over idle Vcore under 100% load conditions will pass stability tests but fail in day to day tasks as the bump in Vcore will never occur to stabilise the chip for that particular frequency.
from my understanding, that's wrong...

LLC is meant to break intel spec by stopping vDroop, it doesn't matter if your chip has "too much vcore", because the least voltage it will ever have is under 100% load. As long as this is greater than the voltage needed for operation then it's fine, LLC shortens the gap between idle voltage and load voltage (or so it should), so that setting 1.40 in bios means your voltage says close 1.40 under load

however i fail to understand why the voltage is indeed higher at idle than stated in bios with LLC on ultra high, it seems like instead of lowering the vDroop it is indeed just bumping the idle voltage up to account for settings, so i mayaswell set 1.40 volts in bios to get a load vcore of 1.38 if that's the case...

"high" LLC seems to be the best in my scenario - idle voltage doesn't tip too far over what's set in bios but doesn't go exceedingly lower than expected under load, however from my observations it seems to be nothing more than a shift in vcore rather than lowering the delta between load and idle (ie. there's no difference between setting 1.40 in bios and getting 1.32 load, than there is setting 1.38 bios with high LLC and getting the same results. 1.40 idle 1.32 load,

no LLC means the voltage never peaks past what is set in bios, but that means a very large vdroop, even with multiple boards that i've had, but high LLC means the voltage will go past 1.40 say 0.02v, but under load it will drop 0.02 less, the change is still the same, which kind of defies the point of LLC, i mayaswell have set 0.02 higher in bios,


just out of curiosity, is a 0.08v droop "normal"?
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post #7 of 8
Personally, I only use LLC on boards with robust VRMs that offer more than one level of it, and then only use the more conservative or moderate settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roksonixx View Post
from my understanding, that's wrong...

LLC is meant to break intel spec by stopping vDroop, it doesn't matter if your chip has "too much vcore", because the least voltage it will ever have is under 100% load.
Some LLC settings on some boards do actively increase voltage under load, to the point that it's noticeably higher than idle.

I have seen cases where these systems will pass multithreaded stress tests with flying colors, but will crap out under lighter loads because vcore is too low unless everything is heavily loaded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roksonixx View Post
however i fail to understand why the voltage is indeed higher at idle than stated in bios with LLC on ultra high, it seems like instead of lowering the vDroop it is indeed just bumping the idle voltage up to account for settings, so i mayaswell set 1.40 volts in bios to get a load vcore of 1.38 if that's the case...

i mayaswell have set 0.02 higher in bios
Many LLC setting are simply tantamount to increasing vcore.

I only recommend LLC in a few cases, because the loadlines used are not as well documented as the default, so you cannot be sure what you get without extensive testing (and would need a good oscilloscope to see transient spikes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roksonixx View Post
just out of curiosity, is a 0.08v droop "normal"?
That sounds completely normal, if not on the low side, for an OCed chip.

I couldn't find a loadline graph for the 2xxx series chips and didn't feel like doing the math myself with the figures given, but if it's at all similar to older Intel CPUs, 0.08v for a high current draw (oced) CPU is quite reasonable.

http://download.intel.com/design/pro...hts/324641.pdf
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post #8 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

That sounds completely normal, if not on the low side, for an OCed chip.

I couldn't find a loadline graph for the 2xxx series chips and didn't feel like doing the math myself with the figures given, but if it's at all similar to older Intel CPUs, 0.08v for a high current draw (oced) CPU is quite reasonable.

http://download.intel.com/design/pro...hts/324641.pdf

thanks for the reply, i was just wondering because ive read what LLC is "meant to do", and 0.08 volts is quite a lot to play with in the overclocking realm of things , it seems LLC should eliminate this but ill gladly stick with my 4.5ghz @ 1.35 volts
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