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[Apple] Lion Downloads Top One Million in First Day - Page 5

post #41 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by T3chAdd1ct View Post
I never knew they were that cheap, so much cheaper than window upgrades (not counting student discounts).
That's because this is the equivalent of a service pack, not a new OS.
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post #42 of 69
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Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
That's because this is the equivalent of a service pack, not a new OS.
I'd say its like the jump from Vista to 7.
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post #43 of 69
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Originally Posted by .:hybrid:. View Post
Personally I hate this argument. Yeah OSX is cheap, but thats because the rest of the profit is in the Apple hardware.

OSX is so cheap yay
Macbook = $$$
actually OSX is not cheap. it's not like you can upgrade a pre OSX machine to Lion buy purchasing a 30 dollar piece of software. If you want to get your system fully updated from what it was 4 years ago you'll have to pay close 200 dollars.
post #44 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crecente View Post
I'd say its like the jump from Vista to 7.
More like the jump from XP to XP SP2. A couple of UI differences, a couple of internal optimizations, but still the same OS.
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post #45 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantoddd View Post
actually OSX is not cheap. it's not like you can upgrade a pre OSX machine to Lion buy purchasing a 30 dollar piece of software. If you want to get your system fully updated from what it was 4 years ago you'll have to pay close 200 dollars.
What do you mean? There's no reason why you'd have to pay $200 if your machine is four years old. If you don't have Snow Leopard and thus can't purchase it via the Mac App Store, you can buy it on a USB chip for $69.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
More like the jump from XP to XP SP2. A couple of UI differences, a couple of internal optimizations, but still the same OS.
No, some also said Snow Leopard was a "service pack" too, but it had massive under the hood changes -- as does this. It's fully 64-bit, has greatly improved security as well as many new features such as Resume, Auto Save, Versions, Fullscreen apps, Launchpad, AirDrop and a plethora of easy to use gestures.

Then you take into account the countless improvements (some of which are quite significant) to Safari, Mail, Spotlight, Quick Look, Mission Control, iCal, Address Book, Time Machine, Mac App Store, File Vault, etc... Plus, there's 3,500 new APIs for developers to make use of (they don't come out of nowhere).

I've updated to many service packs on Windows, and Microsoft has never given me an updated UI to any of the few programs they give you (save for Internet Explorer and that's not so much of a gift), nor has it significantly improved the OS under the hood (bug fixes aside), nor have they added new functionality. They just "tune" things up.

Snow Leopard to Lion, is much, much more of an upgrade than Vista to 7. And, I didn't have to pay $300 for it either. Also I don't have to deal with any licensing rubbish. I don't care if you like the OS or not, but you certainly can't argue that it's a "service pack" if you've actually looked into it thoroughly.
Edited by steelbom - 7/25/11 at 2:37am
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post #46 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
What do you mean? There's no reason why you'd have to pay $200 if your machine is four years old. If you don't have Snow Leopard and thus can't purchase it via the Mac App Store, you can buy it on a USB chip for $69.
Apple makes money selling hardware not from OS. One of the biggest hurdles is OSX is tied to only Apple approved hardware.

Quote:
No, some also said Snow Leopard was a "service pack" too, but it had massive under the hood changes -- as does this. It's fully 64-bit, has greatly improved security as well as many new features such as Resume, Auto Save, Versions, Fullscreen apps, Launchpad, AirDrop and a plethora of easy to use gestures.
It took Apple quite a long time to finally support a 64-bit OS. 7 years after Linux and 6 years after Windows. A lot of those features are comparable to widgets and Windows Live Essentials. Microsoft is not allowed to bundle a lot of features into the base OS due to anti-trust litigation.

- AirDrop is basically Windows Live Mesh.

- Auto Save and Versions is basically Windows Shadow Copy.

- Launchpad is just a glorified Stardock Fences with a gesture.

- Full Screen apps is really a feature? They just added gestures? The task switching in OSX was pretty horrid before so I suppose that is an upgrade.

Quote:
Then you take into account the countless improvements (some of which are quite significant) to Safari, Mail, Spotlight, Quick Look, Mission Control, iCal, Address Book, Time Machine, Mac App Store, File Vault, etc... Plus, there's 3,500 new APIs for developers to make use of (they don't come out of nowhere).
File Vault = BitLocker or TrueCrypt

Mission Control is just nerfed Expose and Spaces combined together.

Time Machine = Windows Backup

Quote:
Snow Leopard to Lion, is much, much more of an upgrade than Vista to 7. And, I didn't have to pay $300 for it either. Also I don't have to deal with any licensing rubbish. I don't care if you like the OS or not, but you certainly can't argue that it's a "service pack" if you've actually looked into it thoroughly.
We still have to account for the more expensive Apple hardware. A $600 laptop becomes a $1000 Macbook. You already paid for the expensive software license by buying a Mac. The license cost is tied to the hardware since Apple only allows OSX to be installed on Apple hardware.
Edited by Riou - 7/25/11 at 3:57am
post #47 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
Apple makes money selling hardware not from OS. One of the biggest hurdles is OSX is tied to only Apple approved hardware.
Yeah, unless you buy a Mac that is really good value. Such as an iMac, or MacBook Air, or Mac Mini, which are great value for their form factors. You're practically getting future OS releases for free at the price point they're selling them.
Quote:
It took Apple quite a long time to finally support a 64-bit OS. 7 years after Linux and 6 years after Windows. A lot of those features are comparable to widgets and Windows Live Essentials. Microsoft is not allowed to bundle a lot of features into the base OS due to anti-trust litigation.
Does it matter? My point is there is plenty of changes under the hood and plenty of other improvements, it's not a simple service pack -- not even close. Widgets are like Dashboard Widgets, not like the other features I mentioned. And whilst I've not really dabbled with Windows Live Essentials, the OS doesn't auto save your documents, nor does it or its applications resume where you left off. It does have its own version of "Versions", but Apple's implementation is better and easier to use imo.

Interesting about the anti-trust litigation. Never knew anything about that. That really sucks... but why isn't it the same for Apple? Is it because they tie their OS to their hardware?
Quote:
- AirDrop is basically Windows Live Mesh.

- Auto Save and Versions is basically Windows Shadow Copy.

- Launchpad is just a glorified Stardock Fences with a gesture.
As I wrote above, my point is that it isn't a service pack.

AirDrop isn't anything like Mesh, it's just an easy way to share files near you.
I've never heard of Windows Shadow Copy, but I've certainly never ever had a document automatically save itself.

Launchpad and Stardock Fences doesn't seem to be similar at all.
Quote:
- Full Screen apps is really a feature? They just added gestures? The task switching in OSX was pretty horrid before so I suppose that is an upgrade.
I've used Leopard and Snow Leopard, alongside Windows 7, for a long time. I've had no problems whatsoever with tasking switching in OS (aside from the occasional thing) but I've had plenty of trouble in Windows because it doesn't have anything like Expose, not anything usable, anyway.
Quote:
File Vault = BitLocker or TrueCrypt

Mission Control is just nerfed Expose and Spaces combined together.
Perhaps File Vault is the same as BitLocker or TrueCrypt, but even so it's still something that has been significantly improved. And, Mission Control is just Expose and Spaces combined together, with a newer, better, easier to use GUI. You've also got quick access to your Dashboard, and to any Fullscreen apps.
Quote:
Time Machine = Windows Backup
My point is that it's been improved. I doubt Windows Backup is as smooth and offers a GUI that makes it as easy to restore individual or groups of files, delete files, and navigate through the backups. Although, I could be completely wrong about that.
Quote:
Mac users fail to account for the more expensive hardware when buying a Mac. A $500 laptop becomes a $1000 Macbook. You already paid for the expensive license by buying a Mac. The license cost is tied to the hardware since Apple only allows OSX to be installed on Apple hardware.
There's really only the MacBook Pro line that you can say that about. The iMac, Mac Mini, and MacBook Air are all pretty great value for their form factors (at present times, not necessarily saying they've always been that way). The dual processor Mac Pro's are comparable to PC equivalents. Maybe the MacBook Pro's are a bit expensive, but I'd put a lot of it down to having such great battery life and build quality.

Most competitors have many lines, each catering to different things. Apple doesn't, you get an all rounded laptop that can do everything well, and it happens to be expensive. I'm sure Apple could get the price down if it had two or three hours of battery life and used a plastic case instead of unibody aluminum, etc.
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post #48 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
Yeah, unless you buy a Mac that is really good value. Such as an iMac, or MacBook Air, or Mac Mini, which are great value for their form factors. You're practically getting future OS releases for free at the price point they're selling them.

Does it matter? My point is there is plenty of changes under the hood and plenty of other improvements, it's not a simple service pack -- not even close. Widgets are like Dashboard Widgets, not like the other features I mentioned. And whilst I've not really dabbled with Windows Live Essentials, the OS doesn't auto save your documents, nor does it or its applications resume where you left off. It does have its own version of "Versions", but Apple's implementation is better and easier to use imo.

Interesting about the anti-trust litigation. Never knew anything about that. That really sucks... but why isn't it the same for Apple? Is it because they tie their OS to their hardware?

As I wrote above, my point is that it isn't a service pack.

AirDrop isn't anything like Mesh, it's just an easy way to share files near you.
I've never heard of Windows Shadow Copy, but I've certainly never ever had a document automatically save itself.

Launchpad and Stardock Fences doesn't seem to be similar at all.

Launch pad is desktop icons with grouping. Windows has had desktop icons forever and fences adds grouping. Or you can just place shortcuts in folders.

I've used Leopard and Snow Leopard, alongside Windows 7, for a long time. I've had no problems whatsoever with tasking switching in OS (aside from the occasional thing) but I've had plenty of trouble in Windows because it doesn't have anything like Expose, not anything usable, anyway.

Intellipoint driver includes an expose feature. Expose is just a hack/desperation move to get multitasking in OSX usable. It's definitely not. I used OSX for awhile(around 8 months) when I started my job(a couple years ago) and it had some strong points but for task switching Command + Tab and Command + ` was my best bet. The thing is Windows doesn't need a mission control like interface because the taskbar provides all those features at one glance. What windows are open. How many windows are open. Windows previews. The dock is what pissed me off the most in OSX. It's too big to leave up(even on smallest setting) and it's super slow to show/hide when on auto hide. If you don't believe me just google it. Auto hide the windows taskbar and see how much faster it shows. The only difference is windows taskbar doesn't need to be hidden because it's not a super space waster. I use mine on the small setting so I get even more space.

Perhaps File Vault is the same as BitLocker or TrueCrypt, but even so it's still something that has been significantly improved. And, Mission Control is just Expose and Spaces combined together, with a newer, better, easier to use GUI. You've also got quick access to your Dashboard, and to any Fullscreen apps.

My point is that it's been improved. I doubt Windows Backup is as smooth and offers a GUI that makes it as easy to restore individual or groups of files, delete files, and navigate through the backups. Although, I could be completely wrong about that.

Yea the interface isn't as flashy but it backs up fine. I do find time machine easier to navigate though. With windows backup though you can backup every 20 minutes if you wanted to. Time machine doesn't allow such control. If I was using MacOSX again I would use a 3rd party backup tool anyway

There's really only the MacBook Pro line that you can say that about. The iMac, Mac Mini, and MacBook Air are all pretty great value for their form factors (at present times, not necessarily saying they've always been that way). The dual processor Mac Pro's are comparable to PC equivalents. Maybe the MacBook Pro's are a bit expensive, but I'd put a lot of it down to having such great battery life and build quality.

Yea the macbook pros are nice. I'm using one right now as my main work computer. Hopefully when I can upgrade there will be a decent alternative on the PC side. It runs Windows 7 pretty good but I have nvidia driver issues some times and the thing runs hotter than the sun. It will burn your leg if you game on it(even if it's' just a little flash game)

Most competitors have many lines, each catering to different things. Apple doesn't, you get an all rounded laptop that can do everything well, and it happens to be expensive. I'm sure Apple could get the price down if it had two or three hours of battery life and used a plastic case instead of unibody aluminum, etc.



One of the funniest things Lion says is a feature is being able to re-size windows from any corner. I was running the Lion dev version and I was just LMAO. I was like really? Seeing people re-size windows in OSX was just plain funny before. Because the maximize is broken you have to always drag the window to the top left and re-size from there. I'm sad I can't watch people at work do this anymore. I just ran hyperdock(cinch does the same thing) so it never really bothered me but most OSX users aren't that smart. The thing about running Windows is it gives you insight on how things in an OS should work(from a UI perspective) and when you see such lack detail in OSX you point it out and try to find something that fixes it. Long term OSX users just bend over and take it, and their productivity takes a plunge.
Edited by dham - 7/25/11 at 5:24am
    
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post #49 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
Then you take into account the countless improvements (some of which are quite significant) to Safari, Mail, Spotlight, Quick Look, Mission Control, iCal, Address Book, Time Machine, Mac App Store, File Vault, etc... Plus, there's 3,500 new APIs for developers to make use of (they don't come out of nowhere).
Improvements to Safari, Mail, iCal, Address Book, ...? That's a pretty weak argument. That's like saying that MS improved notepad, minesweeper, and internet explorer. They're not part of the OS, they're just bundled with it. And quite frankly, they're all just a waste of space. On both platforms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
I've updated to many service packs on Windows, and Microsoft has never given me an updated UI to any of the few programs they give you (save for Internet Explorer and that's not so much of a gift), nor has it significantly improved the OS under the hood (bug fixes aside), nor have they added new functionality. They just "tune" things up.
Yes they did, with XP SP2. That's why I picked that example specifically. Yes there were obviously the bug fixes, but with how much they changed and added it was practically an entirely new OS.
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post #50 of 69
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Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
Improvements to Safari, Mail, iCal, Address Book, ...? That's a pretty weak argument. That's like saying that MS improved notepad, minesweeper, and internet explorer. They're not part of the OS, they're just bundled with it. And quite frankly, they're all just a waste of space. On both platforms.

Yes they did, with XP SP2. That's why I picked that example specifically. Yes there were obviously the bug fixes, but with how much they changed and added it was practically an entirely new OS.
Mac mail is actually pretty good. Other than that, yes, they are a waste of space. Spotlight was good like 4 years ago. Windows search kills spotlight in every way.

Don't get me started on iCal. That skin is disgusting and address book looks terrible too. The new mail layout is awesome though and the only one of those 3 that actually didn't get turned into a piece of crap.
    
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