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[WCCF]AMD Bulldozer Launch in September Now Official, Two New 8 Core FX Processors... - Page 21  

post #201 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCPUser;14332115 
OK, I will concede the laptop thing. Though it should be possible (maybe expensive and unrealistic) to take a desktop chipset and socket and fit into a laptop form factor. But, I dunno.

http://www.falcon-nw.com/desktops/fragbox

It's called the FragBox

thumb.gif
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post #202 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx;14331992 
Only so much you can do without 32nm and HKMG
You can do a lot. Remember the piss poor clocks of the first Opterons and Phenoms? B2 Phenoms could hardly budge past stock clocks. The last black edition could hit 3.1 GHz. Not great, but a hell of an improvement.
The move to 45nm helped a lot, but AMD continued to release higher clocked SKUs as their process matured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx;14331992 
Phenom II does 3 integer executions per cycle per core
FX does 4 integer executions per cycle per core
Actually, yes Bulldozer does have more pipelines than k10h
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx;14331992 
Not at all....that is just the side effect of having the ability of having more cores

The Module concept is all about shrinking the die space and shrinking the power consumption while retaining the performance increase the comes with new architectures
This "side-effect" is the main point of the module concept. Shrinking the die space needed for more cores by sharing resources between integer cores is the method they use to achieve this.
Edited by Somenoob - 7/24/11 at 5:19pm
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post #203 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somenoob;14332215 
Actually, yes Bulldozer does have more pipelines than k10h

This "side-effect" is the main point of the module concept. Shrinking the die space needed for more cores by sharing resources between integer cores is the method they use to achieve this.

This is as far as I got in hardware specs before I just looked up the answers in the software guide

idonteven.png

This is how much I know on the "hardware" side of things lol
I'm a software guy sad-smiley-002.gif
Edited by Seronx - 7/24/11 at 5:19pm
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post #204 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enfluenza;14330443 
huh?
http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/76/intel_007_36676_screen.jpg
^intel's EE cooler looks like it can do something good.
and AMD always somwhat beefy stock coolers compared to intel's
http://computershopper.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/amd-s-redesigned-stock-heat-sink/227923-1-eng-US/amd-s-redesigned-stock-heat-sink.jpg
FX8170's cooler prolly looks like this tongue.gif
http://www.scythe-eu.com/uploads/tx_cfamooflow/Susanoo-Mounted1_01.jpg

llano is on desktops too, and zambezi will be in lappies too.
explain plz.
When you're paying $1,000 for a CPU you had better get something better than the crappy stock heatsink. FX probably runs cool,the AMD copper pipe heatsink is actually good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx;14330468 
Llano isn't binned high on the desktops(I don't think it was binned at all since hardfr and bsn* got it to 1.1375~ Volts stable) and Zambezi will not be on Laptops

Zambezi is going to be binned very high for desktops

cheers.gif
Simulated

Overclocked Engineer Sample = Simulated
More binning= more cost,which is passed onto the consumer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sty;14331295 
OBR isnt what id call a good source for reliable leaks wink.gif
QFT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCPUser;14331862 
I will agree that AMD didn't design them for laptops, but I was referring to Alienware or some other OEM from stuffing one in there anyway. wink.gif
OEM companies have put desktop chips in laptops before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx;14331992 
Only so much you can do without 32nm and HKMG


Phenom II does 3 integer executions per cycle per core
FX does 4 integer executions per cycle per core

New Architecture = More performance
Always
PHII does 3 integer execution cycles per core,FX only does 1 more?
Doesn't sound like a huge improvement over Phenom II.
New architecture doesn't always equal more performance,,clock for clock Pentium III was faster than Pentium 4,and Athlon 64 kicked Intel butt until until they scrapped the Netburst desgin and re-engineered the Pentium III design into Core 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz;14332051 
That's true, and I am speculating (I never once claimed its a fact) and going from the past, however the past tends to be a very good teacher and even with the Athlon64, AMD didn't launch at high clock speeds, they let the IPC do the talking and just ramped up clock speed as the chip aged.
That said, there is Bulldozer enhanced coming out soon.
Considering that Phenom II is Athlon 64 with a faster IPC & clock speed,it aged well IMO.
AMD will have to improve IPC performance with BD-E to compete with Intel IB,if the high clock speeds with BD means the IPC is already lacking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx;14329900 
No threads? what?

3.jpg

I see threads
On paper it looks more efficient than hyperthreading,with bigger dedicated cores that aren't closely linked into the shared area.
BD is a more balanced approach towards sharing resources between cores.
With BD, two cores are split into a module,each module shares resources within those 2 cores. But is it really more effective than each core getting a second thread (hyperthreading)?
Edited by Heavy MG - 7/24/11 at 6:05pm
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post #205 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG;14332349 
AMD will have to improve IPC performance with BD-E to compete with Intel IB,if the high clock speeds with BD means the IPC is already lacking.

It is E-BD aka Enhanced Bulldozer

Clock Speeds =/= IPC

AMD has always increased IPC in total with each new core design regardless of its ability to execute integer

K7 < K8 < K10 < K10.5 < K12
K7 is out performed by the K8
K8 is out performed by the K10
K10 is out performed by the K10.5
K10.5 is out performed by the K12

And that is continued on
K12 is out performed by the K15
Edited by Seronx - 7/24/11 at 5:40pm
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post #206 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx;14331992 


The quality of being suited to serve a purpose well

Phenom II and FX both are suited to serve my workloads well, no functionality was lost, thus retains the functionality

New Architecture = More performance
Always


Quote:
the set of functions or capabilities associated with computer software or hardware



set of founctions and cappability ... and as far as i know .... phenom II wont have a shared core design .. so its a new cappability .... + avx + some other extras we dont know yet


+ the bigger pipeline .. but we dont know too well how it will work ... so until we have slides after nda we can only speculate on what's been added more ...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz;14332051 
That's true, and I am speculating (I never once claimed its a fact) and going from the past, however the past tends to be a very good teacher and even with the Athlon64, AMD didn't launch at high clock speeds, they let the IPC do the talking and just ramped up clock speed as the chip aged.
That said, there is Bulldozer enhanced coming out soon.

gotta love the speculating that feels thrown as facts ....


and btw predicting something in the future based on past isnt quite the best method to do it ...



if we'd use that method we wouldnt have guessed intel would own in 2011 ... based on their P4 design ...


and btw ipc = instruction per clock ...


how many instruction can the processor process per 1hz ..


and having a high speed design doesnt mean it will suck IPC wise ... it can also mean that it is a high throughput design ....


wich was hinted with the imc improvement and the 50% more throughput for 33% more cores on the server design ...
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post #207 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sty;14332600 
gotta love the speculating that feels thrown as facts ....


and btw predicting something in the future based on past isnt quite the best method to do it ...



if we'd use that method we wouldnt have guessed intel would own in 2011 ... based on their P4 design ...


and btw ipc = instruction per clock ...


how many instruction can the processor process per 1hz ..


and having a high speed design doesnt mean it will suck IPC wise ... it can also mean that it is a high throughput design ....


wich was hinted with the imc improvement and the 50% more throughput for 33% more cores on the server design ...


I never even implied it was fact, in fact I originally said that a high clock speed implies low IPC simply because it always has in the past...And considering companies tend to prefer to stick with whats known than change stuff for no reason, the past is a great way to guess with product releases.

And your analogy with the P4 doesn't work. Intel knew they went in the completely wrong direction whereas AMD is headed in the right direction quite obviously.

I know what IPC means, but generally companies try to match or very slightly beat out the competition, why else is SB only at 3.4Ghz with 3.8Ghz Turbo? They could easily get to 4Ghz stock speeds with 4.4Ghz turbo on the stock cooler within 125w, but they don't because SBs IPC is high enough for it not to need 4Ghz stock yet.

Don't get me wrong, Bulldozer will be a great chip, I'm just sick of half of OCN regarding it as a god-chip when it's likely to beat SB if you use a certain amount of cores, depending on the OC.
    
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post #208 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sty;14332600 
set of founctions and cappability ... and as far as i know .... phenom II wont have a shared core design .. so its a new cappability .... + avx + some other extras we dont know yet

FX adds SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AVX, XOP, CVT16, FMA4, AES and CLMUL

FX only removes 3DNow!(+) but I never used that
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz;14332777 
I know what IPC means, but generally companies try to match or very slightly beat out the competition, why else is SB only at 3.4Ghz with 3.8Ghz Turbo? They could easily get to 4Ghz stock speeds with 4.4Ghz turbo on the stock cooler within 125w, but they don't because SBs IPC is high enough for it not to need 4Ghz stock yet.

Sandy Bridge isn't what you should be looking at...look at Sandy Bridge-E

Sandy Bridge-E vs Zambezi is where it is at(Ivy Bridge-E vs Komodo)

CPU vs CPU

Ivy Bridge vs Trinity(Sandy Bridge vs Llano)

APU vs APU
Edited by Seronx - 7/24/11 at 6:41pm
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post #209 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx;14332807 
FX adds SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AVX, XOP, CVT16, FMA4, AES and CLMUL

FX only removes 3DNow!(+) but I never used that



Sandy Bridge isn't what you should be looking at...look at Sandy Bridge-E

Sandy Bridge-E vs Zambezi is where it is at(Ivy Bridge-E vs Komodo)

CPU vs CPU

Ivy Bridge vs Trinity

APU vs APU


1) The pricing is way different. SB-E starts at ~$400 and goes up to $1000. Yeah, people who are looking at $300 Zambezi CPUs will really be cross-shopping them with $1000 SB-E hex-cores...doh.gif

2) Zambezi cannot and was not designed to compete with SB-E since those 2 are in completely different price brackets.

By your line of reasoning everyone who's in the market for a $20,000 Honda Civic might as well look at $70,000 BMW M3s as well because both have 4 doors.
Edited by 996gt2 - 7/24/11 at 6:44pm
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post #210 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2;14332888 
Ok seriously, how thick to you have to be to compare SB-E to Zambezi?

1) The pricing is way different. SB-E starts at ~$400 and goes up to $1000. Yeah, people who are looking at $300 Zambezi CPUs will really be cross-shopping them with $1000 SB-E hex-cores...doh.gif

2) Zambezi cannot and was not designed to compete with SB-E since those 2 are in completely different price brackets.

By your line of reasoning everyone who's in the market for a $20,000 Honda Civic might as well look at $70,000 BMW M3s as well because both have 4 doors.

1a.) No insults please

1b.) Pricing doesn't determine performance does it....

2a.) Zambezi is in the same performance bracket as SB-E

2b.) Which is faster the BMW or the Honda Civic? which one has better gas mileage and more features?
(If the Honda beats the BMW then everyone in the savings game should by the Honda not the BMW)
Edited by Seronx - 7/24/11 at 6:47pm
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