Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TC Magazine] Leaked roadmap shows 10-core AMD desktop CPUs in 2012
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[TC Magazine] Leaked roadmap shows 10-core AMD desktop CPUs in 2012 - Page 18

post #171 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
AMD might not have as much money, but money cannot buy intelligent and innovative thinking. Just look at the rise of Apple this past decade. (Except if a huge bribe is accepted. Then again, Intel already got all the engineers from AMD who were willing to accept the cash. Where do you think Quick Path Interconnect came from, lol...)

If Bulldozer has IPC similar to Sandy Bridge then it's pure win. But look at it this way...

If Bulldozer can only reach clocks of 2.5 GHz, then it'll probably be released at a stock clock of around 2.3 GHz (I'm taking this from history -- the original Phenom). A 2.3 GHz octocore based on the M-SPACE design, which is basically a more effective version of a quad-core with HyperThreading (around 30% more scaling per thread, much more in integer-based workloads). Let's take core scaling, comparing HT and the BD module, based on actual numbers that AMD has given us about BD's module and real world experience has given us about HT.

BD: 180 + 175 + 170 + 165 = 690
2600k: 130 + 125 + 120 + 115 = 490

So the module design is more effective than Intel's HyperThreading. It scales better thanks to it actually having a lot of extra hardware, like most notably an extra integer core.

Now I won't be very scientific with my numbers anymore, but the point will be somewhat accurate. So let's multiply the numbers.

BD's max overclock with turbo off is say around 3 GHz. 3*690=2070

SB's max overclock is around 5 GHz. 5*490= 2450

So even though Bulldozer has a more efficient architecture that does give us more "cores", if it loses that bad in clock speed it just loses. It'll definitely kill the 2500k if priced appropriately, but it won't harm the 2600k. And it'd be a major fail if it was priced closer to the 2600k than to the 2500k (which AMD has said it will be, so they're obviously aiming for higher).

Now, let's say AMD gets BD to clock up to 5 GHz.

5*690=3450

So at that point, they're murdering the 2600k. Then what happens when SB-E comes?

130 + 125 + 120 + 115 + 110 + 105 = 705. Assuming SB-E hits 5 GHz anywhere near as easily as SB, 705*5=3525.

If AMD can get BD to clock high enough, if what we can tell about IPC based on the design of the cores (pipelines etc) and if what AMD has told us about the efficiency of modules is all true, then $320 Bulldozer isn't going to be far behind the $1000 Sandy Bridge Extreme and AMD is a clear choice until Ivy Bridge. (OBR says that the 3930k will be $569, though -- I wouldn't trust him, but even if Intel lowers the price to that area, it's fail. It would need to be sub-$400.) And soon after Ivy Bridge, we'll have BD-E (or E-BD, whatever order you want it to be in). Haswell drops, and right around the corner we have NGBD. I think that by the time Intel has hit the Skymont architecture though, it's about time for AMD to make a big change in their architecture. Hopefully they will, because it's the mistake they made that led to them terribly failing most of the time between 2006 and 2011 (Phenom II X6 had great value when it was released, though).

So, point is: even if BD is a better architecture, it still can't fail in clocks that badly. If Pentium 4 actually did hit 10 GHz, you could bet it would beat the Athlon 64. The IPC just wasn't *that* much different. Once AMD tunes it to get higher clocks, it will destroy.

NOTE: It's very late at night over here. Please, someone (from the AMD side preferably) please let me know if everything I said above makes no sense and I *really* need to get some sleep. I'm having trouble keeping my eyes open. Believe it or not, I've been half-sleeping on and off so much I started writing this post 45 minutes ago.

EDIT: I would like to note that the equations above are done based on the assumption that Bulldozer can deliver IPC better than that of Nehalem. However, even if IPC is equal to Nehalem (which I think at this point is probably the safest estimate), take out 15% or whatever the difference between Nehalem and Sandy Bridge is from 3450 and you still have a number considerably larger than 2450.
What is this non-sense?
BD more efficient but only being able to OC to 3Ghz? Are you on crack?
This is on the level of "they're stealing our nanometers" postings.
post #172 of 352
*Wonder's if Donaimhaber was responsible for this (Fake, insulting, discriminateing, racist, mental, chav) leaked rubbish up*
The Ancient
(14 items)
 
FZ-G1
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom X6 1055T 3.9GHz NB 3.0GHz ASUS Crosshair V  GTX 770 8GB G.Skill TridentX 1652MHz CL7-7-8-20-22 1T 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
OCZ 60GB Vertex 2E - 3x HDD's Samsung Blu-Ray Drive Custom W/C Loop Windows 7 64bit 
PowerCase
Superflower Leadex 650W Coolermaster Storm Scout Mod 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Core i5-3437U Intel HD4000 8GB 256GB SSD 
OSMonitorKeyboardCase
Windows 8 Pro 10.1 WUXGA Touchscreen Worlds Durable Tablet 
  hide details  
Reply
The Ancient
(14 items)
 
FZ-G1
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom X6 1055T 3.9GHz NB 3.0GHz ASUS Crosshair V  GTX 770 8GB G.Skill TridentX 1652MHz CL7-7-8-20-22 1T 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
OCZ 60GB Vertex 2E - 3x HDD's Samsung Blu-Ray Drive Custom W/C Loop Windows 7 64bit 
PowerCase
Superflower Leadex 650W Coolermaster Storm Scout Mod 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Core i5-3437U Intel HD4000 8GB 256GB SSD 
OSMonitorKeyboardCase
Windows 8 Pro 10.1 WUXGA Touchscreen Worlds Durable Tablet 
  hide details  
Reply
post #173 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
What is this non-sense?
BD more efficient but only being able to OC to 3Ghz? Are you on crack?
This is on the level of "they're stealing our nanometers" postings.
Overclocks =/= efficiency ??
What?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GameBoy View Post
Quite good? Bulldozer will be an auto win for AMD if they can match Nehalems IPC. A 2600K wouldn't even be worth considering (if the rumored prices are true).

Intel isn't exactly putting everything they have into making better desktop chips though, are they? It makes sense for them to make small leaps while there is no/or little competition. AMD has a clear chance of coming back IMO.
Exactly. Nehalem IPC is still more than enough,which makes a 8 core BD with the performance of a i7 (possible 980X or more speed?) more appealing than a 4 core SB. AMD needs to come back to keep innovation going,Intel is basically ripping off consumers by only giving a small bump in performance while forcing new chipsets with each new chip. 1156 lasted like a year?
Edited by Heavy MG - 7/26/11 at 4:54am
Moar cores!
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX 8320 @ 4.0Ghz/4.2Ghz turbo gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 rev. 4.0 Gigabyte Nvida GTX 770OC 2GB/ Gigabyte 970 G1 G... Gskill Sniper 1866Mhz 8GB (4GB x 2) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB WD Black 1TB Asus 24X CM Hyper 212Evo 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Home X64 HP 22BW 21.5" LED-IPS CM Storm Trigger/MX Brown Corsair TX 650V2 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM HAF922 Logitech G500S Steelseries QCK Mini Asus Xonar DX 7.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Moar cores!
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX 8320 @ 4.0Ghz/4.2Ghz turbo gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 rev. 4.0 Gigabyte Nvida GTX 770OC 2GB/ Gigabyte 970 G1 G... Gskill Sniper 1866Mhz 8GB (4GB x 2) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB WD Black 1TB Asus 24X CM Hyper 212Evo 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Home X64 HP 22BW 21.5" LED-IPS CM Storm Trigger/MX Brown Corsair TX 650V2 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM HAF922 Logitech G500S Steelseries QCK Mini Asus Xonar DX 7.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #174 of 352
OCN is terrible people arguing about performance, no one knows anything about the performance here so you cant judge end of don't go making up your mind gonig for both Intel & AMD fanboys.
Main system
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 4770k Gigabyte Z97MX-Gaming 5 HIS 7950 3GB + EK FC Block Corsair XMS3 8gb 1600mhz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
SanDisk 240GB SSD PLUS Custom water cooling. Windows 10 64bit Hazro HZ27WC 
KeyboardPowerCase
Razer Black Widow Evga G2 650w LianLi c32b 
  hide details  
Reply
Main system
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 4770k Gigabyte Z97MX-Gaming 5 HIS 7950 3GB + EK FC Block Corsair XMS3 8gb 1600mhz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
SanDisk 240GB SSD PLUS Custom water cooling. Windows 10 64bit Hazro HZ27WC 
KeyboardPowerCase
Razer Black Widow Evga G2 650w LianLi c32b 
  hide details  
Reply
post #175 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeNF View Post
My god... The way technology is going...

I swear, we will have 20 Core mobile CPU's in our phones by 2015 if technology keeps advancing at this rate.
And ones gotta ask: Whats the point?

Why throw more cores on a CPU when it's taken this long to properly utilize four? If software can't make use of it, there is no point.

Throwing more cores at it won't make it better. At least the ignorant will buy it. "More cores? oh it's gotta be better!"

If thats how AMD's going to conduct business then i won't be buying any of their processors. I want some real gains. Benchmarks, etc.
Edited by Thingamajig - 7/26/11 at 6:18am
post #176 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingamajig View Post
And ones gotta ask: Whats the point?

Why throw more cores on a CPU when it's taken this long to properly utilize four? If software can't make use of it, there is no point.

Throwing more cores at it won't make it better. At least the ignorant will buy it. "More cores? oh it's gotta be better!"

If thats how AMD's going to conduct business then i won't be buying any of their processors. I want some real gains. Benchmarks, etc.
Because no one will code anything that utilises more than 4 cores until such hardware exists. There's no point writing massively parallel software if it runs like a dog on 99% of the hardware in use currently.
post #177 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
What is this non-sense?
BD more efficient but only being able to OC to 3Ghz? Are you on crack?
This is on the level of "they're stealing our nanometers" postings.
What? The architecture IS more efficient. I proved that based on numbers AMD themselves have given us. Four Bulldozer modules is more powerful than four cores with HyperThreading. Clock speed has nothing to do with the efficiency of the architecture. K8 was a much more efficient architecture than NetBurst, but the Athlon 64 didn't overclock nearly as well. The IPC made up for it. What I'm saying is that AMD would be lucky to match Intel in IPC, so even though the modules scale better than the 2600k's cores, if the release stepping cannot achieve much more than half the clock speed it will still be a failure. That's the reason why AMD had to delay Bulldozer a few months and create a new, higher clocking stepping. Poor clock speeds reminds one of the original Phenom.

I don't know if you're on crack or if you just don't know what the word "efficient" means. But if you're on crack you probably wouldn't have the money for your system... so please grab a dictionary. Something that's efficient performs in a better manner. Bulldozer does, but if it doesn't clock high, then it won't matter.
Kalki
(25 items)
 
Alienware
(18 items)
 
ASUS A53Z
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320 @ 4.73GHz Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Radeon HD 7950 @ 1200/1800 8GB Samsung 30nm DDR3 @ 2000MHz 11-11-11-28-1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
128GB Crucial M4 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 2TB Seagate Barracuda ST 7200 RPM who cares 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC Raystorm XSPC Razor HD 7970 XSPC EX240 Swiftech MCP50X 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Black Ice GT Stealth 240 2x XSPC Xinruilian 1650rpm 2x Yate Loon Slim 1800rpm Alphacool Light Tower 
OSOSMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 Gentoo GNU/Linux Dell UltraSharp U2412M CM Storm Trigger MX Brown 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair AX750 Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech G400 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD OPTERON BULLDOZER 16-CORE 2GHZ (32GHZ TOTAL) ALIENWARE 3+1 PHASE ITX GAMING BOARD 4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 430 32GB GAMING DDR3 800MHZ CL13 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2TB 5400RPM GAMING HDD GAMING BLU RAY BURNER ONE GAMING CASE FAN UBUNTU W/ UNITY (I AM 1337 H4X0R) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HD-READY 24" 1366X768 PENTILE TN PANEL GAMING M... ALIENWARE TACTX UBER 1337 BACKLIT RUBBER MEMBRA... OFF-BRAND 200W GAMING PSU; 65% EFFICIENCY  ALIENWARE GAMING CASE WITH THE COOL GLOWING ALIEN 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
ALIENWARE TACTX GAMING MOUSE ALIENWARE MOUSEPAD IT'S DESIGNED FOR GAMING AND... BEATS AUDIO 1337 ALIENWARE TACTX 8-CHANNEL GAMING HEADSET/M... 
OtherOther
16 CORES!!!! 4GB VRAM!!!! FASTER THAN 3960X + 7... ALIENWARE GAMING CARPET 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD A6-3420M OC 2.2GHz / 3GHz Turbo 1.10625v ASUS A53Z AMD Radeon HD 6520G 6GB DDR3 1333MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
320GB WD Scorpio Black yes. really good Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Fedora GNU/Linux 1366x768 LED-backlit TN panel Decent + numpad ~5hr 6-cell li-ion 
Audio
Altec Lansing 
  hide details  
Reply
Kalki
(25 items)
 
Alienware
(18 items)
 
ASUS A53Z
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320 @ 4.73GHz Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Radeon HD 7950 @ 1200/1800 8GB Samsung 30nm DDR3 @ 2000MHz 11-11-11-28-1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
128GB Crucial M4 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 2TB Seagate Barracuda ST 7200 RPM who cares 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC Raystorm XSPC Razor HD 7970 XSPC EX240 Swiftech MCP50X 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Black Ice GT Stealth 240 2x XSPC Xinruilian 1650rpm 2x Yate Loon Slim 1800rpm Alphacool Light Tower 
OSOSMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 Gentoo GNU/Linux Dell UltraSharp U2412M CM Storm Trigger MX Brown 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair AX750 Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech G400 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD OPTERON BULLDOZER 16-CORE 2GHZ (32GHZ TOTAL) ALIENWARE 3+1 PHASE ITX GAMING BOARD 4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 430 32GB GAMING DDR3 800MHZ CL13 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2TB 5400RPM GAMING HDD GAMING BLU RAY BURNER ONE GAMING CASE FAN UBUNTU W/ UNITY (I AM 1337 H4X0R) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HD-READY 24" 1366X768 PENTILE TN PANEL GAMING M... ALIENWARE TACTX UBER 1337 BACKLIT RUBBER MEMBRA... OFF-BRAND 200W GAMING PSU; 65% EFFICIENCY  ALIENWARE GAMING CASE WITH THE COOL GLOWING ALIEN 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
ALIENWARE TACTX GAMING MOUSE ALIENWARE MOUSEPAD IT'S DESIGNED FOR GAMING AND... BEATS AUDIO 1337 ALIENWARE TACTX 8-CHANNEL GAMING HEADSET/M... 
OtherOther
16 CORES!!!! 4GB VRAM!!!! FASTER THAN 3960X + 7... ALIENWARE GAMING CARPET 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD A6-3420M OC 2.2GHz / 3GHz Turbo 1.10625v ASUS A53Z AMD Radeon HD 6520G 6GB DDR3 1333MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
320GB WD Scorpio Black yes. really good Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Fedora GNU/Linux 1366x768 LED-backlit TN panel Decent + numpad ~5hr 6-cell li-ion 
Audio
Altec Lansing 
  hide details  
Reply
post #178 of 352
I just hope when AMD start designing their next "ground up" architecture, they don't tell anyone until it's on the shelf! LOL

I don't think I could take another 3 years like the last ones!
Purpleannex
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k Z68 Extreme4gen3 Gainward GTX 470 @ 740Mhz 8GB Mushkin Blackline LV (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz 9... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
128GB Crucial M225 SSD 2 x 500gb 500GbB samsung 500GbB samsung Samsung SH-B083L 8x BD Combo 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 7 64-bit LG W2486L LED 24" 1080p Antech True power new 750W FT-02 B-W 
  hide details  
Reply
Purpleannex
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k Z68 Extreme4gen3 Gainward GTX 470 @ 740Mhz 8GB Mushkin Blackline LV (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz 9... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
128GB Crucial M225 SSD 2 x 500gb 500GbB samsung 500GbB samsung Samsung SH-B083L 8x BD Combo 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 7 64-bit LG W2486L LED 24" 1080p Antech True power new 750W FT-02 B-W 
  hide details  
Reply
post #179 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG;14350617 

Exactly. Nehalem IPC is still more than enough,which makes a 8 core BD with the performance of a i7 (possible 980X or more speed?) more appealing than a 4 core SB. AMD needs to come back to keep innovation going,Intel is basically ripping off consumers by only giving a small bump in performance while forcing new chipsets with each new chip. 1156 lasted like a year?

whats that mean for gamers like me that don't need a 8core
Car replacement
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
pII x4 40 @ 3.72GHz NB @ 2.79GHz M4A89gtd PRO/USB3 Sapphire 6950 2GB nonRef 950/1520 @1.2V 4GB Gskill DDR3 CL7eco @1656 6-8-6-20-24-1T 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
WD Black 640GB SATA3 Windows 7 Ultimate BenQ 24" G2420HD 1920x1080 SeaSonic M12II 520W 
Case
TV stand on wheels + cardboard door 
  hide details  
Reply
Car replacement
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
pII x4 40 @ 3.72GHz NB @ 2.79GHz M4A89gtd PRO/USB3 Sapphire 6950 2GB nonRef 950/1520 @1.2V 4GB Gskill DDR3 CL7eco @1656 6-8-6-20-24-1T 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
WD Black 640GB SATA3 Windows 7 Ultimate BenQ 24" G2420HD 1920x1080 SeaSonic M12II 520W 
Case
TV stand on wheels + cardboard door 
  hide details  
Reply
post #180 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
What? The architecture IS more efficient. I proved that based on numbers AMD themselves have given us. Four Bulldozer modules is more powerful than four cores with HyperThreading. Clock speed has nothing to do with the efficiency of the architecture. K8 was a much more efficient architecture than NetBurst, but the Athlon 64 didn't overclock nearly as well. The IPC made up for it. What I'm saying is that AMD would be lucky to match Intel in IPC, so even though the modules scale better than the 2600k's cores, if the release stepping cannot achieve much more than half the clock speed it will still be a failure. That's the reason why AMD had to delay Bulldozer a few months and create a new, higher clocking stepping. Poor clock speeds reminds one of the original Phenom.

I don't know if you're on crack or if you just don't know what the word "efficient" means. But if you're on crack you probably wouldn't have the money for your system... so please grab a dictionary. Something that's efficient performs in a better manner. Bulldozer does, but if it doesn't clock high, then it won't matter.
Yeah, if the reports of the low speed on the earlier revisions were 100% true, then it could have ended like phenom I. Atleast this time they delayed it instead of just throwing it out and hoping someone would buy it.
Sane
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930K @ 4.9Ghz 1.46V ASUS Rampage IV Formula ASUS GTX780 1176Mhz 1.187V 16GB GeIL Enhance Corsa 1600Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung 256GB 830 EK Supremacy Nickel-Plexi XSPC RS360 XSPC RX240 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
5x Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-15 Windows 8 Pro x64 Asus VE228T Logitech G19s 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair HX850 NZXT Phantom 630 Razor Abyssus 
  hide details  
Reply
Sane
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930K @ 4.9Ghz 1.46V ASUS Rampage IV Formula ASUS GTX780 1176Mhz 1.187V 16GB GeIL Enhance Corsa 1600Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung 256GB 830 EK Supremacy Nickel-Plexi XSPC RS360 XSPC RX240 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
5x Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-15 Windows 8 Pro x64 Asus VE228T Logitech G19s 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair HX850 NZXT Phantom 630 Razor Abyssus 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TC Magazine] Leaked roadmap shows 10-core AMD desktop CPUs in 2012