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Is it pretty much guaranteed that Bulldozer will beat Sandy Bridge? - Page 5  

post #41 of 75
My concern isn't if AMD is going to compete with what intel has out now. The concern should be that by the time BD comes out, IvyBridge will be that much closer. BD MIGHT be better or at least on par with SB, but there won't be enough time for it to compete with SB by the time Ivybridge comes out. That's not a great position for AMD to be in.
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post #42 of 75
That's true, even if BD beats SB it wont matter much if Ivy is anywhere near that price bracket.
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post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
I've been upset that AMD has been mostly a flop compared to Intel since after the 939 days. AMD was really killing it in the price-to-performance department and they've been slacking ever since. Hopefully, BD changes that. HOPEFULLY. 6 core AMD for $300 that outperforms Intel's $320 2600k? Take my money.
Why would Amd sell a faster chip for less then a processor that it beats in performance? They wouldn't have delayed it for a new stepping if it had beat the 2600K. I'm thinking the 8 core will be between the 2500K and 2600K in performance.
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post #44 of 75
I am looking at BD like this. AMD APU are base on Phenom II core, but at 32nm and they are beating the sandybridge i3. So BD should have better core in it, so it should be equal or better than sandybridge 2500k or 2600k.
Edited by dixson01974 - 7/25/11 at 12:19pm
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post #45 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joephis19 View Post
My concern isn't if AMD is going to compete with what intel has out now. The concern should be that by the time BD comes out, IvyBridge will be that much closer. BD MIGHT be better or at least on par with SB, but there won't be enough time for it to compete with SB by the time Ivybridge comes out. That's not a great position for AMD to be in.
like putting off lunch for too long and its almost super time

I hope BD does well, consumers need the competition, gamers need CPU power, I fear BD will fail in games vs SB
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post #46 of 75
AMD has a long road ahead, almost every thread is another SB platform being built. AMD has lost some market share already and when the gloves come off in the forth quarter what will be the next move for them?

I think this new platform will ultimantly dominate consumer grade PC though. the onboard solution will be sought after by the OEM's selling to the e-mailer/surfers of the world.

Mainstream computing just got better and this is where the BD platform will shine, I think it will struggle emensley in the enthusiast market place.

Sandy is too fast and priced to sell
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post #47 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixson01974 View Post
I am looking at BD like this. AMD APU are base on Phenom II core, but at 32nm and they are beat the sandybridge i3. So BD should have better core in it, so it should be equal or better than sandybridge 2500k or 2600k.
Llano only beat the I3 in gaming when the APU's were used. With discreet graphics it wasn't even close

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/289?vs=399
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post #48 of 75
As many others have said we don't know and won't know until final products launch.

My own personal prediction is that it won't compete with Intel's highest end. My reasons being the delay and rumors of AMD not being able to hit their desired clocks. It makes it seem like they have to be able to clock their chips higher than their Sandy Bridge counterparts to remain competitive. My second reason is that pricing rumors have it priced less than Sandy Bridge, if they were no contest faster they would be priced higher, or at the very least the same.

I love AMD, my first computer that I built for myself used an Athlon 1.33Ghz Thunderbird core and it was a great machine. I am hoping they can get competitive again but after their delays launching the Phenom they have had a hard time competing. They are behind Intel in cash and other resources and I just think it will hard for AMD to surpass Intel like they did during the Netburst days.
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post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Garnet View Post
In theory, that's sound, but stuff is not quite threaded that way yet, even if the engine can spawn X amount of threads or whatever. I mean, does a Phenom II X6 give 50% more performance in Battlefield Bad Company 2 than a Phenom II X4? Not all threads are created equally. Usually, you have a few main ones, and the rest are minor. It's increasingly difficult to scale to 16 threads to the level of perfection (in other words, to where a 6 core CPU performs about twice as well as an 8 core CPU). IPC still does now, and will for a long time yet, play a major role.

No doubt though that stuff that does take advantage of extra cores threads to a more balanced/high degree will tip things in Bulldozer's favor, but right now, that's not looking to be games. That's why a quad core Sandy Bridge is faster than a hex core Core i7 990x Extreme in almost every game there is, a few exceptions aside.

The days you're talking of are still quite a ways away. It's alot of work to make stuff threaded to that degree. Ask any code writer/developer/programmer/whatever. There's alot of timing/sync issues involved. The days of eight and sixteen core games showing gains like that and being common place are a ways away. Honestly, dual core CPUs are still usable, and only recently have tri core and quad core CPUs become more and more required in a few games (and the consoles probably are half of the reason for that, to be honest).

In any case, we'll see. We won't know until the game and Bulldozer is out.
I understand what you are saying completely, there is too many unknowns at this point. I don't personally believe those days are too far off. Frostbite is a great representation of what is possible today in terms of high thread count programing (I think "Embarrassingly Parallel" is an awesome name for it BTW, and I still giggle when someone says it...). Quad core computers are really becoming a common place item, with dual cores bearing the lower-end label, generally. But as with everything, time will tell.

I also agree, I think consoles are a bit of a burden right now since they are now way behind current tech. 6 years is a long time in the tech world.

Side note:
Actually, a Phenom X6 may actually give a 50% performance boost over an X4 in BFBC2. I'll have to re-run my tests with my 965 X4 and 1100T X6 downclocked to 2000Mhz (force CPU bottleneck) and see if the framerate is 50% better on the 1100T (or GPU utilization, since I'm having a hard time with punkbuster and FPS programs). I actually would not be surprised if that was the case. I also need to do a single thread bench between the two; that'd tell me if the cores are equal (something I've been very curious about).
Edited by SectorNine50 - 7/25/11 at 12:27pm
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post #50 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecnelitsep View Post
Llano only beat the I3 in gaming when the APU's were used. With discreet graphics it wasn't even close

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/289?vs=399



I think bulldozer will do well in multithreaded apps, like Cinebench.

I wouldn't buy one as a gamer though, unless the quad core can run with the i5-2500k, once they're both overclocked there wouldn't be much point in switching to BD with Ivy Bridge coming to 1155 a few months after bulldozer releases.

AMD is so far behind right now they're almost releasing on Intels tick, which means most likely Intel will get their tock (haswell 22nm) out about the same time bulldozer brings out their bulldozer 22nm revision.

All that said the imo for mid/high end gamers Intel has the chip to beat at $220. If you're looking to price vs performance and your only focus is rendering and other multithreaded apps the eight core bulldozer might win out, leaving the i7-2600k a sort of "hybird" in the mix. With gaming performance of the i5-2500k, while offering better multithreaded performance than the i5-2500k. Whereas a eight core bulldozer chip is going to be crippled in most games since most are dual or tri threaded.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 7/25/11 at 12:33pm
    
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