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[MaximumPC] Western Digital Reportedly Breeding New Velociraptor Drives - Page 8  

post #71 of 132
1TB or go home
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post #72 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by justarealguy View Post
Vraptors have their niche. They're a nice drive for a casual user. I waited because SSDs were too premature. Right now there's no reason not to go for a SSD especially for an enthusiast.
My thoughts exactly.

The first thing that pops into my head when i hear velociraptor is yeah it had its day but now we have ssd's.
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post #73 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzO View Post
No, that's exactly what I meant. Velociraptor is a HDD, HDDs have been around for ages, it has been improved and refined over the years but the fundamentals remain the same. What has yet to be proven are SSDs, the technology is rather new and has yet to be proven. According to what you're saying every time a new HDD comes out it has to "prove itself" and resets the counter? Your logic makes no sense.

Just look at all the problems with the 2nd Gen Sandforce controller on the Vertex 3 and the recent Intel SSD fiasco. Reliability is still a unknown. There still not enough conclusive tests to show exactly how reliable SSDs are.

SSDs is like ecstasy, everything feels great while it works.
So if VRs is just a regular HDD, then that brings me back to my previous point, why would you buy one over a regular HDD? VR's and the consumer-based 10k rpm technology it uses have only been out for a few years, if that's enough time for VR's to be proven reliable, then the same goes for SSDs. You can say that the VR brings something different/better to the table OR you can say they use the same "proven" technology that all other HDDs have. But you can't have it both ways.

By the way, flash NAND has been around for 25 years. Hard drives have been around for longer, but the progressive technology in hard drives today are vastly different from the ones 10/15/20 years ago.

With a less-than-one write amplification that the Vertex3's controller implements, it's "questionable" reliability is even less important. That fiasco if I remember correctly was about slower drives as there weren't as many parallel channels because of the small capacities on 25nm nand.

You guys see this 3000 write cycle and say "OMG, you mean I can only write 5GB of data to my SSD per day for the next 5 years before my data will be read-only?" Who writes a lot of data to their SSDs anyway? I use mine as my boot drive as I'm sure many people who buy them do as well. Most people who have the money to buy a SSD have the money to upgrade their computers at least every 3 years anyway. It's like buying a CRT TV that won't die for 40 years as opposed to a nicer Plasma/LCD TV that won't die for 20 years. And that example is perfectly valid, especially for OCN, because we mess around with our parts 50x more frequently than we buy new tvs
post #74 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGX1016 View Post
Can anyone link to an enterprise ssd? I'm not sure what that is...
OCZ's enterprise SSD (Deneva) isn't available to consumers.

http://www.oczenterprise.com/
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post #75 of 132
umm id stake the reliability of my Intel X25-E's against a raptor any day of the week, after 2 years of using mine i had only used .35% of their life obviously other failures can occur but it wasnt going to wear out anytime soon.

And while the may be out of stock now, guess where i bought them from, newegg


the raptors are neat and all, and if i couldnt afford an SSD id grab one but they still dont hold a candle in random performance to an SSD.

Even with non enterprise class drives such as my C300's i have a feeling they will last a good bit too
Edited by Blindsay - 7/29/11 at 4:25pm
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post #76 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post
umm id stake the reliability of my Intel X25-E's against a raptor any day of the week, after 2 years of using mine i had only used .35% of their life obviously other failures can occur but it wasnt going to wear out anytime soon.

And while the may be out of stock now, guess where i bought them from, newegg
That's just a wild guess. I have 2 74GB Raptors in RAID0 mfr. date 2003 and still running.

Only time will tell of SSDs reliability. When a HDD dies most of the time the data can still be recovered. Not sure if I can say the same when NAND dies.
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post #77 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzO View Post
That's just a wild guess. I have 2 74GB Raptors in RAID0 mfr. date 2003 and still running.

Only time will tell of SSDs reliability. When a HDD dies most of the time the data can still be recovered. Not sure if I can say the same when NAND dies.

if u think your raptors will out last my Enterprise class SSD's then good luck to you, ...... is bliss i guess.

and when a hard drive fails i have seen PLENTY that data is not recoverable or at least not without outrageous means. a SSD when it runs out of writes is still readable

and its not a wild guess on my part if ive used .35% of their life in 2 years you do the math on how long they last. i understand other failures can occur, but given their are no moving parts the odds of failure are much smaller. Add in the fact that intel has the lowest failure rate of the SSD's and we are talking about their Enterprise class drive.

So far ive owned a total of 5 SSD's and not one has had a problem, and in that same time ive had issues with plenty of mechanical drives.

further there have been tests down that stress SSD's beyond normal use to simulate a longer use, so it is possible to figure out their life


edit: the only reason to get a raptor is if you cant afford a SSD, which is fine, but they are not better nor more reliable. And WD lists the raptors as an Enterprise class drive they should be compared to an enterprise class SSD.
Edited by Blindsay - 7/29/11 at 4:37pm
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post #78 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP View Post
Intel Smart Response makes these drives completely useless.
Smart Response has it's own problems.
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post #79 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post
if u think your raptors will out last my Enterprise class SSD's then good luck to you, ...... is bliss i guess.
When did I say VRs out last enterprise SSDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post
and when a hard drive fails i have seen PLENTY that data is not recoverable or at least not without outrageous means. a SSD when it runs out of writes is still readable
If it's still readable then it hasn't failed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post
So far ive owned a total of 5 SSD's and not one has had a problem, and in that same time ive had issues with plenty of mechanical drives.
Yeah, it's called luck-of-the-draw. Same can't be said of Vertex 3 owners and Intel 320 owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post
further there have been tests down that stress SSD's beyond normal use to simulate a longer use, so it is possible to figure out their life
According to you if SSDs last that long, guess we don't need enterprise SSDs right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post
edit: the only reason to get a raptor is if you cant afford a SSD, which is fine, but they are not better nor more reliable. And WD lists the raptors as an Enterprise class drive they should be compared to an enterprise class SSD.
A 600GB Velociraptor costs $250 on Newegg. You're saying someone who has $250 can't afford a SSD? Makes no sense at all.
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post #80 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth2o View Post
I will have SSD speeds, with much greater reliability.
No, you won't, even a 20k RPM drive would still have inferior latency than an SSD and the reliability is unproven, so far apart from a few hiccups (Which HDDs still get, 7200.11 1.5TB anyone?) SSDs have proven as reliable as HDDs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _GTech View Post
You do realize that you could put 4 X 1 TB HDD in RAID for just $240?

Last time I checked 4 HDD in RAID was PDQ! (Pretty darn quick!)

Even 2 X 1 TB in RAID is only $120, so why go SSD at all?

I don't see all the hype over SSD, I have one and it's not all that, really it's not...
RAID0 generally doesn't improve seek times, just sustained speed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AzO View Post
HDDs haven't been around long enough?

The reliability of SSDs has yet to be proven.
There's 5 year old SSDs that still work happily, if you haven't upgraded by then...Well, yeah.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quentin View Post
What advantage does the VR have over an appropriate RAID setup?
Reliability, seek speed (The entire point of a 10k RPM drive) and ease of use. (It's a hell of a lot easier to partition 1 HDD than setting up RAID, then partitioning the HDDs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzO View Post
No, that's exactly what I meant. Velociraptor is a HDD, HDDs have been around for ages, it has been improved and refined over the years but the fundamentals remain the same. What has yet to be proven are SSDs, the technology is rather new and has yet to be proven. According to what you're saying every time a new HDD comes out it has to "prove itself" and resets the counter? Your logic makes no sense.

Just look at all the problems with the 2nd Gen Sandforce controller on the Vertex 3 and the recent Intel SSD fiasco. Reliability is still a unknown. There still not enough conclusive tests to show exactly how reliable SSDs are.

SSDs is like ecstasy, everything feels great while it works.
Actually, the previous gen SSDs are ultra fast still and proven for reliability. (Eg. Sandforce 1, Intel x25-E, etc)

The best HDDs were the first ones (Lasting 20+ years easily), they were nothing like the ones we have now apart from the platters and read/write head, they had stepper motors, they didn't have the controller card on-board, they used completely different methods of reading/writing the data, etc, SSDs reliability is good enough for the average enthusiast, plus, if you've got anything other than programs and your OS on the SSD (i.e. Stuff that takes a reinstall to be recovered, nothing more) then you're doing it wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrekk View Post
More-or-less. My 4 Blacks in RAID0 are at least as good as one VR, I paid a little less but have 2TB instead of 600GB, and gain some redundancy!
They're a damn lot less reliable, RAID0 has no redundancy.

And for speed, the thing that matters (Seek times) is won by the VR. By far.

By far the best HDD setup would be a 120GB SSD for your OS and some programs and games, then a VR 300GB for the rest of your programs and the entire C:\\Users folder (Get a startup disc, boot off disc and use cmd to move the entire users folder to the VR and then make a symbolic link) and a 2TB or so HDD for backing up your documents and downloads and the like.
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